sexual selection

posts about #sexualselection more →
Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
Species Diversity Not Caused By Environment
Science Still Cannot Explain Why Women Sleep Around
Europeans Pick Mates By Smell More Often than Africans Do
Why Nature Prefers a Small Man to Mate with a Big Woman

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Vulcan Has No Moon
11/07/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
"Who knows how much research into sexual selection has been flawed because researchers forgot the crucial ingredient of female freedom?"

Female preference and how it steers the course of evolution is an area of study that hasn't gotten a lot of attention, but it isn't unknown.

The water strider study parallel's a study done in mallard ducks. Over 70% of copulation is forced copulation by one or more males (rape/gang rape) . However, very few offspring result from forced copulation. Only about 3%. Female ducks have evolved highly elaborate reproductive organs to keep the undesirable males from impregnating them. Plus, they have the ability to store sperm from their chosen mates in their bodies for up to 10 days. #science
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corpore-metal
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
Bah! Who needs to be nice guy or a bad guy when you can be an evil genius and build all your own children or pleasure bots!

(Peels of loud sardonic and slightly unbalanced laughter!) #science
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DrMathochist
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
Other studies of sex among water striders had kept the population contained in a limited area, where females had access to very few males.

Compare this to the situation in more and more institutions of higher education, where the sex ratio is approaching (or even blowing straight through) 60% female.
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Edited by DrMathochist at 11/06/09 2:41 PM DrMathochist was starred DrMathochist was unstarred

Vulcan Has No Moon
11/07/09

@DrMathochist: The percentage of females in higher education would be even higher than 60% if those institutions of higher learning didn't practice "gender balancing". If they went by academic achievement alone, it would be closer to 80% female. #science
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Chip Overclock
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
He's just not that into you. #science
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Cal Hawks
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
The less aggressive ones got that "Quiet cool"

They're like the Fonz! #science
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Dresan
11/07/09

@Cal Hawks: Heeeey. #science
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Indigen
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
That's good for waterstriders. Now do you believe it has anything to do even remotely with humans?

If you say yes, is there a way I can filter your content out?

PS. Many insects eat their partners. #science
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Annalee Newitz
11/06/09

@Indigen: I didn't say it had anything to do with humans.

But eating sexual partners is a good idea, right? Nom nom nom. #science
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Chuck
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
If the past week or two of critter sex articles have taught me anything, it's that I'd rather be a fruit bat than a water strider... #science
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Denza Car
11/07/09

@Chuck: Sadly, that statement can't really be sung to the tune of El Condor Pasa. #science
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Chuck
11/07/09

@Denza Car: True, but an awesome idea nonetheless... #science
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Jes St.Lawrence
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
Deep thought:

Water Striders don't consume alcohol. #science
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JRD_2
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
But Dinesh D'souza told me that altruism can't be explained by selection! Science must have it wrong. #science
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tetracycloide
11/06/09

@JRD_2: be it men or water skates is it really altruistic behaviour if they're only doing it to get laid more often? #science
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JRD_2
11/06/09

@tetracycloide: Well... I think that would take more space than a blog comment to fully address but the first question is at what level are we "only doing it to get laid more often." If we're talking about humans the selfish gene argument would be that much of the altruistic behavior that we undertake without any conscious expectation of personal gain, whether getting laid or otherwise, is nevertheless preferentially selected because it contributes to gene propagation either in the form of personal reproduction or kin selection. So I might put myself at risk to help the lady in distress simply because I'm a nice guy who expects no reward, but I've evolved to be a nice guy because that strategy helped my ancestors get laid more often. #science
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nexialist
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
hm, what about gentleman-psychopaths? #science
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Vulcan Has No Moon
11/07/09

@nexialist: Dexter seems to be getting plenty of poon. Kahn Noonien Singh (Ricardo Montalbán) had no problem scoring with the ladies of Trek-verse. Heck, even Hannibal Lechter managed to hook up with Clarice. #science
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Nivenus
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
From what I've read, heard, and guessed, it's not so much that girls like bad boys - it's that they like *confident* boys. And in general, rebellious, aggressive guys tend to be more confident than shy guys (duh). As a rule, I expect most women want somebody who's confident AND a gentleman but will settle for simply confident if necessary.

Of course, not being a woman, I could have no idea what I'm talking about. #science
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EBone
11/06/09

@Nivenus: We're one of the few species that have sex for sheer pleasure, instead of the biological imperative of maintaining the species. Most women I've spoken to on the subject almost all agree on one thing - they want the bad boy for the fun "sheer pleasure" times, but when they're ready to settle down and procreate, they switch to the nice guy. #science
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Althestane
11/06/09

@Nivenus: This study is also somewhat flawed if you want to try and apply it to human-mate selection. It's only conclusion is that the girl-striders have more babies with the gentleman-striders. It says nothing of the wild encounters and girls-night-out activities of the girl-striders, casually sexing it up with the prick-striders and then coming home to have their nice, stable, family-friendly gentlemen-striders. To say nothing of the emotional strife felt by the gentlemen-striders, left at home and expected to be good fathers to all the little egglings while mommy-strider acts like a whore! you can't have it both ways girl-striders!!!! #science
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TemporalSword
11/06/09

@Nivenus: Every guy says they don't know what women want, but it's easy: they want it all.

They want the bad boy AND the white picket fence. They want a job they like AND get paid well to do it. They want to have fun AND be responsible. Some things are just mutually exclusive, but they don't want to admit that. #science
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velleity
11/06/09

@TemporalSword: Or, you know, women are not a monolith and different women want different things.

Why, it's almost like they're regular people. #science
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TemporalSword
11/06/09

@velleity: I know, I'm generalizing based on a fraction of the world's female population that I've personally encountered, but I've seen it enough to know it's true far more often than not. It may not be fair, but a lot of bad apples ruin it for the rest (the same way jerks ruin it for the true nice guys out there, which I'm guessing at this point you don't think I'm one of). #science
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Nivenus
11/06/09

@TemporalSword: I think that's a little unfair.

I've certainly had some bad experiences but I don't hold it against the female population as a whole.

And let's be fair - men sometimes want more than is reasonable as well. It's just human nature. #science
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Nivenus
11/06/09

@Althestane: Oh, well that's certainly true. I was merely commenting on MY observations of human sexuality.

It's a given I would expect that water strider mating habits are going to have only a marginal connection to human ones. They have about as much relevance (perhaps even less) as the mating habits of squid. Which is to say there isn't NO relevance, but it's pretty marginal to be sure. #science
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Nivenus
11/06/09

@EBone: I'm sure that plays into it. But I think it goes deeper than that.

A person who has no self-worth is simply not attractive. #science
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EBone
11/06/09

@Nivenus: Don't equate no self worth with being nice. #science
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Dr.Quatermass: I have to say Dr. You are once again spot on with that oberservation and anything I am about to say that contradicts this statement is strictly for humor sake.
11/06/09

@velleity: Same goes for men.

Have to point that out. #science
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Nivenus
11/06/09

@EBone: I don't. But often what makes nice guys unattractive is their lack of such.

I'm talking about myself, just so you know. I've spent a lot of time and effort trying to build my self-confidence. #science
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reddingofish
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
The question for the male becomes, do you want children or do you want to get laid? #science
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TemporalSword
11/06/09

@reddingofish: Well, if we're talking homo sapiens here, I think you know the answer for any male under the age of 30, and probably a good two-thirds of all males in general.
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Edited by TemporalSword at 11/06/09 12:23 PM TemporalSword was starred TemporalSword was unstarred

Pope John Peeps II
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
"Researchers also believe the females reponded poorly to the smell of Drakkar Noir and Jagermeister." #science
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TemporalSword
11/06/09

@Pope John Peeps II: Or AXE and Mountain Dew Code Red. #science
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firstanointed
11/06/09

@TemporalSword: Sometimes I think the male olfactory sense must be broken. Getting a whiff of their colognes is like being run over by a Coca Cola truck.

Just sayin'..there's no need to use the whole entire bottle, guys. Unless you're stranded in the middle of the Arctic and the only way to find you is to sniff you out, just a dab will do ya. #science
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TemporalSword
11/06/09

@firstanointed: Heh. Unfortunately, most guys give in to an old instinct we have: when in doubt, more is ALWAYS better. #science
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burlybax
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
Next time Im at a bar, and I see a guy trying too hard and striking out, im going to pull this study up on my phone and explain it to him, and show him that he should be more like the water strider.. Im sure it will help tremendously
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ManchuCandidate promoted this comment Edited by burlybax at 11/06/09 11:05 AM burlybax was starred burlybax was unstarred

ManchuCandidate
11/06/09

@burlybax:
If by help you mean get beaten up for cockblocking him then yes.

In my experience, those guys would never appreciate the help. #science
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burlybax
11/06/09

@ManchuCandidate: That's exactly what I meant... I live in Dallas, and Im sure it's the same way in every major city, or every city, but I've been threatened to be stabbed just for drunkenly walking up too close to doods at bars while they are talking to girls.. I usually laugh, sometimes I run though.. #science
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ManchuCandidate
11/06/09

@burlybax:
Damn, don't mess with Texas if they're trying to get some. #science
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Gann
11/06/09

@ManchuCandidate: Generally, Texans are some of the nicest people you'll meet. However our psychopaths are douchier than most, and for some reason they seem to be drawn here to Dallas. #science
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TemporalSword
11/06/09

In reply to Why Aggressive Men Finish Last
This is not the case in broad human populations, where the nice guys always finish last. #science
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jaynesworth
11/06/09

@TemporalSword: As I've said before, "Nice guys don't get laid, pricks get laid." #science
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TemporalSword
11/06/09

@jaynesworth: Yeah. And the best part is, after said prick treats her like shit and leaves, she just whines about wanting to just find a nice guy...and then proceeds to find another prick. #science
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velleity
11/06/09

@TemporalSword: Yeah, but often guys who say they are nice guys are just a different flavour of douchebag. #science
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tetracycloide
11/06/09

@velleity: case in point, nice guys that complain that nice guys don't get laid all the time are really just pricks with no balls and nobody wants balless pricks. #science
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TemporalSword
11/06/09

@tetracycloide: Wouldn't that be a eunuch? #science
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Vulcan Has No Moon
11/07/09

@TemporalSword: No, the guys who call themselves "Nice Guys" are seldom actually nice. Guys who go around whining "Nice Guys Finish Last" generally are the creeps who pretend to be a woman's friend and really are just hanging around pretending to care to get in their pants. Women, having excellent douche-dar, instantly realize the guy playing "Nice And Sensitive" doesn't really give f--k all about them, their feelings, or their beliefs. Women know when you're playing them. Please refer to the book "The Gift Of Fear" by Gavin De Becker.

[jezebel.com]

Hence the preference for "Bad Boys". Those guys are honest with you. They'll tell you right up front they don't give a flying f--k about a relationship. They tell you straight up they're horny and want to get laid....and honesty really can be the best policy sometimes.

[jezebel.com]
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Edited by Vulcan Has No Moon at 11/07/09 7:47 PM Vulcan Has No Moon was starred

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