"Who knows how much research into sexual selection has been flawed because researchers forgot the crucial ingredient of female freedom?"
Female preference and how it steers the course of evolution is an area of study that hasn't gotten a lot of attention, but it isn't unknown.
The water strider study parallel's a study done in mallard ducks. Over 70% of copulation is forced copulation by one or more males (rape/gang rape) . However, very few offspring result from forced copulation. Only about 3%. Female ducks have evolved highly elaborate reproductive organs to keep the undesirable males from impregnating them. Plus, they have the ability to store sperm from their chosen mates in their bodies for up to 10 days. #science
Other studies of sex among water striders had kept the population contained in a limited area, where females had access to very few males.
Compare this to the situation in more and more institutions of higher education, where the sex ratio is approaching (or even blowing straight through) 60% female.
@DrMathochist: The percentage of females in higher education would be even higher than 60% if those institutions of higher learning didn't practice "gender balancing". If they went by academic achievement alone, it would be closer to 80% female. #science
@reddingofish: Well, if we're talking homo sapiens here, I think you know the answer for any male under the age of 30, and probably a good two-thirds of all males in general.
@TemporalSword: Sometimes I think the male olfactory sense must be broken. Getting a whiff of their colognes is like being run over by a Coca Cola truck.
Just sayin'..there's no need to use the whole entire bottle, guys. Unless you're stranded in the middle of the Arctic and the only way to find you is to sniff you out, just a dab will do ya. #science
@jaynesworth: Yeah. And the best part is, after said prick treats her like shit and leaves, she just whines about wanting to just find a nice guy...and then proceeds to find another prick. #science
@velleity: case in point, nice guys that complain that nice guys don't get laid all the time are really just pricks with no balls and nobody wants balless pricks. #science
@TemporalSword: No, the guys who call themselves "Nice Guys" are seldom actually nice. Guys who go around whining "Nice Guys Finish Last" generally are the creeps who pretend to be a woman's friend and really are just hanging around pretending to care to get in their pants. Women, having excellent douche-dar, instantly realize the guy playing "Nice And Sensitive" doesn't really give f--k all about them, their feelings, or their beliefs. Women know when you're playing them. Please refer to the book "The Gift Of Fear" by Gavin De Becker.
Hence the preference for "Bad Boys". Those guys are honest with you. They'll tell you right up front they don't give a flying f--k about a relationship. They tell you straight up they're horny and want to get laid....and honesty really can be the best policy sometimes.
So it's like a Friday Night at any bar in any large urban center. I can picture the water strider equivalent of the Butabi Brothers wearing six gallons of Dakar or Axe, gold chains and bobbing their heads to "What is Love?"
As for isolated populations theory, this is familiar to anyone who has lived in a small town and seen the local assholes/louts have their way with the local ladies.
In a way, you can see this happening with humans. Before anyone jumps on my comment, I am not about to say that people of different races are different species. Anyways, in cities with many races, you will see that the majority of people will date within their own race despite having no geographic or genetic boundary keeping them from dating another race. Instead, it is a matter of sexual selection because they choose to be with their own race rather than another race. Theoretically, if this preference to date within one's own race continues, different species where people are not capable of producing offspring or can only create sterile offspring could happen.
It is possible that other animals have a similar thing happen. Perhaps some animals are attracted to different traits despite being of the same species. As an example, perhaps with the bird of paradise, some females focus more on the dance while others focus more on the color of the male. This preference to focus on the dance or the color could be a matter of nurture, not nature. Therefore, the focus on either the dance or the color becomes passed down and speciation can occur between the good dancers and the birds with good colors.
Actually, there are two effects in play in cases of geographic isolation.
The first is, as you mentioned, the new hardships or abundances. But the second is the lack of gene flow between the two groups. Sufficient genetic exchange between two groups prevents speciation, even in wildly different environments. Insufficient genetic exchange between neighboring groups causes speciation even without differing hardships and abundances (as founder's effect becomes amplified over time).
I think one of the points is you don't need geographical separation to create new species, not to have beneficial mutations. Standard models of evolution (or simplified) would state that a positive mutation would spread through a homogeneous population without barriers and eventually all of the population would posses it. Either because it was passed down through generations, or because the ones WITH the mutation outbread the ones without, so in a few generations the new special reds would have supplanted the blues.
This study is staying that in thousands of generations, you have blues and reds and they cant breed with each other and produce offspring (or maybe the offspring is sterile).
Geographic isolation is not the definition of natural selection. Natural selection is when that little mutation that turns you from red to green also means you lay slightly more eggs than the reds, or have a slightly longer tongue for catching ants, or you're slightly harder for bats to detect, or whatever.
Geographic isolation just gives a population the opportunity to experience hardships or abundance distinct from their brothers and sisters.
@rek: I think what this articles is basically saying though is that if you took 2 groups of 10 people of similar descent and appearance and kept them in similar places but seperate, in 2000 generations neither group will look like the other.
This difference is partially due to the fact that over 2000 generations both groups are very unlikely to make the same choices when it comes to mating.
@KryptonZero: I know what they're saying (geographic isolation isn't necessary for speciation) — that's been known for years, but it's presented here as if geographic isolation was the only known cause of speciation, or a huge part of it. It's not. I don't think it ever was thought to be. Mutation is the foothold natural selection uses to churn out new species.
11/07/09
Female preference and how it steers the course of evolution is an area of study that hasn't gotten a lot of attention, but it isn't unknown.
The water strider study parallel's a study done in mallard ducks. Over 70% of copulation is forced copulation by one or more males (rape/gang rape) . However, very few offspring result from forced copulation. Only about 3%. Female ducks have evolved highly elaborate reproductive organs to keep the undesirable males from impregnating them. Plus, they have the ability to store sperm from their chosen mates in their bodies for up to 10 days. #science
11/06/09
(Peels of loud sardonic and slightly unbalanced laughter!) #science
11/06/09
Compare this to the situation in more and more institutions of higher education, where the sex ratio is approaching (or even blowing straight through) 60% female.
11/07/09
11/06/09
11/06/09
11/07/09
11/07/09
11/06/09
Water Striders don't consume alcohol. #science
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11/06/09
Just sayin'..there's no need to use the whole entire bottle, guys. Unless you're stranded in the middle of the Arctic and the only way to find you is to sniff you out, just a dab will do ya. #science
11/06/09
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11/07/09
[jezebel.com]
Hence the preference for "Bad Boys". Those guys are honest with you. They'll tell you right up front they don't give a flying f--k about a relationship. They tell you straight up they're horny and want to get laid....and honesty really can be the best policy sometimes.
[jezebel.com]
11/06/09
As for isolated populations theory, this is familiar to anyone who has lived in a small town and seen the local assholes/louts have their way with the local ladies.
11/06/09
11/06/09
07/19/09
It is possible that other animals have a similar thing happen. Perhaps some animals are attracted to different traits despite being of the same species. As an example, perhaps with the bird of paradise, some females focus more on the dance while others focus more on the color of the male. This preference to focus on the dance or the color could be a matter of nurture, not nature. Therefore, the focus on either the dance or the color becomes passed down and speciation can occur between the good dancers and the birds with good colors.
07/17/09
The first is, as you mentioned, the new hardships or abundances. But the second is the lack of gene flow between the two groups. Sufficient genetic exchange between two groups prevents speciation, even in wildly different environments. Insufficient genetic exchange between neighboring groups causes speciation even without differing hardships and abundances (as founder's effect becomes amplified over time).
07/17/09
This study is staying that in thousands of generations, you have blues and reds and they cant breed with each other and produce offspring (or maybe the offspring is sterile).
07/17/09
07/18/09
Whaaaaaaat? Did you read the post or are you just having trouble understanding it?
This is not about disproving evolution
07/17/09
Geographic isolation just gives a population the opportunity to experience hardships or abundance distinct from their brothers and sisters.
07/18/09
This difference is partially due to the fact that over 2000 generations both groups are very unlikely to make the same choices when it comes to mating.
07/18/09