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Thu Dec 10
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Every superhero is derivative of Superman. Every sci-fi film is derivative of Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers. The sci-fi authors mentioned here borrowed and expanded and cobbled together from pre-existing concepts and elements. Early sci-fi transposed western concepts and pioneer stories into space settings.
Literature, film and art are derivative of past efforts. The extent to which one is influenced does matter, but it's wrong to pick and chose who gets scorn and who gets praised. There's nothing wrong with seeing a great story and being inspired by it, and that is how some of the best material was created. Without that, we'd have a tiny collection of books and film.
Look at the many examples cited right here of stories all very similar regarding the avatar-like premise, and ask which of those likewise should be derided as unoriginal rip-offs.
Cameron is one of many writers who used the concept of human minds transported into alien bodies. Nor is the notion of "going feral" rare -- someone mentioned werewolves, and that's what I thought of as well. Early writers riffed on other concepts, developed new versions of old ideas, and then many of them used the same new versions.
I understand everyone's concern about actual plagiarism (I am a screenwriter, so the matter is one I take seriously), but I feel the term is too loosely applied to Cameron, and that he catches an undo amount of criticism. He's made great films and great contributions to sci-fi -- as have many other writers who relied on derivative concepts clearly inspired by their writing peers.
See the trick of cinematic theft is this, if you're going to steal, don't plagiarize one author, plagiarize a bunch. Then sue the pants off anyone who comes close to your property.
It worked for George Lucas!
Oh yeah, and in music it worked for Led Zeppelin who pulled the gold fillings out of old bluesmen's mouths without as much as a tip of the hat.
Well, until latter in their careers when they were pressured to grudging parted with a few 'quid' to settle claims and silence critics. #avatar
Wow, I have that issue in the basement, and I have it in a collection or two as well, because I always tried to have every story Poul ever wrote. Poul Anderson's stories were my first love in the field (I went on to Jack Vance afterward). That's why when I was able to buy John Schoenherr's cover for THE LONGEST VOYAGE, I snapped it up years ago, on a visit to John's studio.
Duh. I've been saying THE ENTIRE TIME that this is a ripoff of "Call Me Joe". It's the first thing I thought of when I heard about Avatar.
Proof that even though I may have a star, nobody's reading my comments. Srsly. Go back and look at my postings on any Avatar article here on io9. I've been beating this drum forever.
And I hope Karen and Astrid get a huuuuge chunk of money and Poul gets a mention -- though, of course, they're not as litigious as Harlan (who is?). #avatar
@Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.: While I have never read the book in question the plot of Avatar sounds verbatim like the plot of this book. I laughed when they said Avatar was ripping off Delgo, that shit was garbage and the whole thing was laughable, one of the few cartoon movies my kids don't like. But if he hasn't credited this book as inspiration then the reason is he's basically taken the plot and put a really shiny coat of paint on it. #avatar
Oh this post makes me happy, because I have been trying to remember the name of this story and the author since I first heard about Avatar. My only surprise is that it took so long to come up. #avatar
@Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.: Sorry. I have just been caught up in my own little world. Plus I have to admit to just skimming a lot of Avatar coverage because I strongly feel that Cameron's best movie was the first Terminator and he has just been going down hill since then. #avatar
@Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.: Oh. I've noticed. But being starless I'm even less noticed. Lately I've been predicting that there will be an earthquake in California tomorrow. One of these days I will be RIGHT! And then? Profit! #avatar
astounding had tons of great cover art.I own nearly every issue (xcept 1) between mid 1931 to dec.1939
and it doesnot surprise me about this post.when naming a band or writing a story/film one should do their research first to see if it has been used before.
folks do not take the time to do this step nor do they care.
my 1st punk band The Transplants from the 1970's has releases out and still get back together for reunions and are asked to be on present day comps but we still had our name stolen by some lame bigwig label schmucks who should of known better as all you had to do was look in your computer.go ahead and see on google.now these young ones could of just looked it up and easily then the could of used another name.
Terminator= Demon With the Glass Hand as mentioned
Aliens= Starship Troopers
The Abyss= Into the Abyss by HG Wells
Strange Days= Tek War
I mean come on guys, the guy has been basically ripping off the greats ((and not so greats)) of Science Fiction his entire Career, why should his newest film be a suprise?
Feed the novella and the Avatar screenplay through the turnitin plagiarism screening program. Seriously. Jim, if you're following this thread, email me a copy of your script and I'll scan it in.
The story with "The Terminator" is as follows. Cameron admitted in conversation that he had ripped off the plot "from a couple of Outer Limits episodes". At that point, the author of said Outer Limits episodes (Ellison) asked to be paid, and after a bit of litigation and negotiation (perhaps made unnecessarily unpleasant by the caustic personalities of both Ellison and Cameron) he was. This was perhaps entirely unnecessary, as the ideas ripped off were sufficiently generic that there is little chance Ellison would have had a case had Cameron not already admitted it. If the same has happened again with Poul Andersonm, well I hope he gets paid too.
However, I care far less about this than I care about the question about whether Avatar is a good movie. If it is, then Cameron has my thanks. #avatar
12/01/09
[en.wikipedia.org]
11/30/09
And holy smeg, I got starred! Thanks, io9!
11/30/09
10/28/09
Literature, film and art are derivative of past efforts. The extent to which one is influenced does matter, but it's wrong to pick and chose who gets scorn and who gets praised. There's nothing wrong with seeing a great story and being inspired by it, and that is how some of the best material was created. Without that, we'd have a tiny collection of books and film.
Look at the many examples cited right here of stories all very similar regarding the avatar-like premise, and ask which of those likewise should be derided as unoriginal rip-offs.
Cameron is one of many writers who used the concept of human minds transported into alien bodies. Nor is the notion of "going feral" rare -- someone mentioned werewolves, and that's what I thought of as well. Early writers riffed on other concepts, developed new versions of old ideas, and then many of them used the same new versions.
I understand everyone's concern about actual plagiarism (I am a screenwriter, so the matter is one I take seriously), but I feel the term is too loosely applied to Cameron, and that he catches an undo amount of criticism. He's made great films and great contributions to sci-fi -- as have many other writers who relied on derivative concepts clearly inspired by their writing peers.
10/28/09
10/26/09
It worked for George Lucas!
Oh yeah, and in music it worked for Led Zeppelin who pulled the gold fillings out of old bluesmen's mouths without as much as a tip of the hat.
Well, until latter in their careers when they were pressured to grudging parted with a few 'quid' to settle claims and silence critics. #avatar
10/26/09
Wow, I have that issue in the basement, and I have it in a collection or two as well, because I always tried to have every story Poul ever wrote. Poul Anderson's stories were my first love in the field (I went on to Jack Vance afterward). That's why when I was able to buy John Schoenherr's cover for THE LONGEST VOYAGE, I snapped it up years ago, on a visit to John's studio.
Yes, the 1970s were very good to me. #avatar
10/26/09
10/27/09
Best. Plagiarism defence. Ever.
"I don't read much!" #avatar
10/26/09
Proof that even though I may have a star, nobody's reading my comments. Srsly. Go back and look at my postings on any Avatar article here on io9. I've been beating this drum forever.
And I hope Karen and Astrid get a huuuuge chunk of money and Poul gets a mention -- though, of course, they're not as litigious as Harlan (who is?). #avatar
10/26/09
10/26/09
10/26/09
10/26/09
@Allen_Richards: And this... this is going right up Ellison's ass!
10/26/09
10/26/09
10/26/09
10/26/09
10/27/09
11/12/09
11/12/09
But thanks anyway. #avatar
10/26/09
and it doesnot surprise me about this post.when naming a band or writing a story/film one should do their research first to see if it has been used before.
folks do not take the time to do this step nor do they care.
my 1st punk band The Transplants from the 1970's has releases out and still get back together for reunions and are asked to be on present day comps but we still had our name stolen by some lame bigwig label schmucks who should of known better as all you had to do was look in your computer.go ahead and see on google.now these young ones could of just looked it up and easily then the could of used another name.
my astounding collection is 1930's issues.
10/26/09
Terminator= Demon With the Glass Hand as mentioned
Aliens= Starship Troopers
The Abyss= Into the Abyss by HG Wells
Strange Days= Tek War
I mean come on guys, the guy has been basically ripping off the greats ((and not so greats)) of Science Fiction his entire Career, why should his newest film be a suprise?
10/26/09
10/26/09
However, I care far less about this than I care about the question about whether Avatar is a good movie. If it is, then Cameron has my thanks. #avatar