Ok so logic dictates that solo Superheroes have become insanly popular! Er....I think thats what its trying to say!! Banner, Stark, Castle and wayne....they've all been solo flyers and that film revolves around 1 superhero. Yet when it comes to a school of lycra wearing teens....not so good!! But thens theres Watchmen. Great film......bad marketing. They market it like Batman (see trailer), yet it turns out to be a slow and steady downfall into the costumed heroes sick mind..rape scene and all. Not many people took to that! Watchmen is Marmite..hate it or love it!!
Also loving the giant Superman. And why does Spidey have a 'King Kong' complex!??
Edited by CoffinDodger (If the typos crap. Blame my keyboard) at 11/23/09 6:52 AM
CoffinDodger (If the typos crap. Blame my keyboard) was starred
CoffinDodger (If the typos crap. Blame my keyboard) was unstarred
Yes, please ignore origin movies like Batman Begins, Spider-Man, Superman The Movie and Iron Man because it's not like they were better THAN ALMOST EVERY MOVIE ON YOUR LIST OR ANTHING (The Incredibles may be the best superhero movie ever made)! And then there's the small matter that Darkman was an "origin" film, while X-Men and Blade, which weren't on your list, were not!
This is right up there with Top Ten Science Fiction Comedies as a completely lame list from IO9 where you violate your own conditions, not to mention logic and I'm beginning to think at the heart of it is some odd quest to make people like Mystery Men. This is IO9's version of "fetch" and it's not going to happen.
@NotArthurPDragon: I'm conflicted. You're making a rude comment that sort of misses the point of the article (unconventional superhero movie gimmicks) yet, you used one of my favorite Mean Girls references...
Charlie stated "almost every superhero movie follows a drab formula, walking us through the good guy's origin story"and every film on your list falls into that category. This list is about interesting ideas and concepts that other filmakers should take note of. It's not a "best superhero movies" list.
Yes, Buffy is most definitely a superhero and one who breaks the mold. The fact that the movie wasn't good shouldn't stop her being added. Consider your other choices.
@Rusty626: To my mind, Buffy is just another iteration of the fantasy hero, like Luke Skywalker or something. I just don't see her as a superhero somehow.
I do wish these superhero movies would ditch the huge 'origin' element.
In the comics the character usually had to have a few successful adventures before anyone pretended to care where they came from. I mean - cut to the chase!
The logic behind the obligatory 'origin' seems to be that audiences simply will not believe a man can climb a wall if we don;t see the 'bitten by spider' part.
Yet we are capable of watching star trek without seeing the invention of the di-lithium extraction process.
Audiences will be happy with a simple introductory sentence as long as the first scene involves explosions and some freaky powers.
No one cares how cheese-string man got his powers, only if he has a cool/brain twisting adventure
@unconvincingchatbot: Most people consider the origin stories to be the core of the superhero genre. It makes the superhero relateable and allows the audience to empathize with an otherwise silly story. A great story chronicles the journey of a person becoming a hero (or a villian). It's not done merely for the sake of practicality, but as a metaphor for a very external struggle. Peter Parker's origin story is about receiving power and displaying responsibility/restraint with it. How can we believe him as a person unless we see him struggle in the beginning? Star Trek, on the other hand, is truly a horse of a different color. The setting is something that can be told through the story and doesn't need a lot of technobabble explanation scenes for an audience to follow it. And, besides, the new Trek film was really an origin story anyway.
"the costume-maker woman is one of the greatest characters in animated movie history" Edna Mode was also voiced by Brad Bird which I think is pretty cool too!
@it must be bunnies: Nah, what made it really cool was that he only recorded the voice as filler until they could cast the final voice talent...and then they decided it was too cool to replace.
I'd love to see some movies that don't focus on the super-hero, but on the impact super-heroes have on the world and people around them.
Marvels as a movie would be (potentially) awesome. Not every comic book movie has to be filled from start to finish with punches and splodey stuff. A bit more humanity, with enough super effects stuff to keep people interested and sell tickets.
@Magicant: I like the idea of a comic/movie about the cops and the mayor who has to deal with the superheroes. Write about their struggle to deal with the super villains themselves or to bring in the calvary.
If you have not read them, you would likely enjoy the 'Gotham Central' graphic novels. They feature Gotham City cops--ordinary people--dealing with the utterly bizarre world of the superhero. Despite the superhero context, the plots, characters, and art are all naturalistic. It seems like this could be our world if our cops had to periodically tangle with superpowers.
'Powers' covers some of the same ground (it might have been first, I can't recall exactly), but I didn't like the art style has much. But still good and worth a read if you like the concept!
I've thought that 'Kingdom Come' would be a tremendously interesting film, mostly because the book features Superman facing a problem he cannot solve with his fists. From what few Superman stories I've seen and read, I've thought that he was at his most compelling when he had to make hard moral choices and have wondered if that would make a compelling movie.
@Francis Fernandez: Oh good lord, thank you. The girl who played Margo in that movie was horrid, though I agree with others who say Baldwin was funnyish in it.
@Francis Fernandez: I watc...oh, wait, no that was The Phantom. Nev'mind.
@TheAlmanac: Alec Baldwin has a knack for comedy? I'm pretty sure he can't even act. All he's really got in his bag of tricks is that "listen to how cool I sound" voice, and I respond with a resounding, "Meh."
@HighNoon: Yeah, it can keep begging. 30 Rock makes me want to throw large objects at the TV screen, and doubly so when Baldwin is hackting his way across the screen. Triply so when he does his stupid "I'm important" half-turn in the opening credits.
To focus further, the reason The Incredibles broke the mold is because it was brilliantly written with outstanding, realistic characters.
Or to put it another way - my wife, who (to grossly over-simplify it) thinks cartoons are for kids and super-heroes are for young men, will stop everything to watch The Incredibles when it comes on.
So yes, brilliant writing and outstanding characters - I'm all for copying that.
@92BuickLeSabre: Unfortunately, the Hollywood mentality is "ZOMG, Pixar movies are all CGI, and they all rake in the cash. If we make _our_ movies using CGI, they'll also be more popular!" These people need to be spanked to within an inch of their lives with a limp carp.
@octalass: I felt the same about Waterworld. The first half is a really intriguing story, and then suddenly Dennis Hopper shows up with his biker gang and turns it into Mad Max on the high seas.
Wait, so lemme get this straight. To "break the mold" with superhero films, one should:
1) Shamelessly mine an original text, shot-by-shot and frame-by-frame, while alienating the creator of that text and pretty much replicating everything that was weak or problematic about the original.
2) Use the superhero metaphor in order to make a fairly boring, sexist claim about what happens when women have power (i.e., they're irrational and hysterical).
4) Make an otherwise underwhelming and/or outright embarrassingly bad film which nevertheless features genre elements and can therefore get away with it because, really, comic fanboys aren't discerning filmgoers anyway, right?
5) Call in Pixar.
6) Pull the "cowboys in space" routine and make it a superhero comedy.
Charlie Jane, I love your stuff on this site and I appreciate your moving beyond the more obvious choices (The Dark Knight, Bryan Singer's first X-Men) for this list. But, at the same time, I can't help but think you aren't sort of scraping the bottom of the barrel in some cases. If by "breaking the mold" you mean "decidedly niche" or "so-bad-it's-good," then fine. But God help us if Zack Snyder becomes the inspiration for anything besides bad art school film theses.
@TomSkylark:I assume your first point is about Watchmen. Every year popular books are made into movies and people gripe that the filmmakers were not faithful enough to the source material. Now here comes Watchmen and people gripe that it is too faithful. You can't have it both ways. And by the way, Alan Moore was alienated by Hollywood a long time before Watchmen came out mainly by his own experience with Hollywood producers when he was hired as a screenwriter for an unproduced film. He was initially supportive of a Watchman movie back when David S. Goyer was working on the screenplay. It was only when it seemed that a Watchman movie would never be made, that he started claiming that it was unfilmable.
@Bill-Lee: Actually, I think we can have it both ways. One can have a faithful adaptation of a text that doesn't involve tracing paper. Look at what Peter Jackson did with LOTR. Ignoring fanboy ire regarding the negligible exclusions of either Tom Bombadil or the Shire Reckoning, Jackson managed to capture (and maybe enhance) the spirit of the films while nevertheless providing his own artistic vision of the series. What Zack Snyder did, on the other hand, was to copy most of the shots from the visuals of the text, kick up the gore, and provide some terribly awkward soundtrack choices. Was it very close to the original? Sure. Did it show any sort of creativity on his part in adapting the book? Not so much. To be clear here, I didn't love Moore's original--it's just not for me, period. That said, I recognize and respect the text and Moore's innovation in writing it. But Snyder's adaptation wasn't innovative in turn, it was a carbon copy.
@TomSkylark: Not to burst your bubble, but not a lot of people would call LOTR "creative". It was excellent, and well-put together, but creative and original? Hardly. It was just a really excellent rendering of exactly what you imagined the books would look like.
07:42 AM
And yes, let's stay away from Punisher movies shall we?
06:51 AM
Also loving the giant Superman. And why does Spidey have a 'King Kong' complex!??
06/16/09
This is right up there with Top Ten Science Fiction Comedies as a completely lame list from IO9 where you violate your own conditions, not to mention logic and I'm beginning to think at the heart of it is some odd quest to make people like Mystery Men. This is IO9's version of "fetch" and it's not going to happen.
06/16/09
Charlie stated "almost every superhero movie follows a drab formula, walking us through the good guy's origin story"and every film on your list falls into that category. This list is about interesting ideas and concepts that other filmakers should take note of. It's not a "best superhero movies" list.
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
In the comics the character usually had to have a few successful adventures before anyone pretended to care where they came from. I mean - cut to the chase!
The logic behind the obligatory 'origin' seems to be that audiences simply will not believe a man can climb a wall if we don;t see the 'bitten by spider' part.
Yet we are capable of watching star trek without seeing the invention of the di-lithium extraction process.
Audiences will be happy with a simple introductory sentence as long as the first scene involves explosions and some freaky powers.
No one cares how cheese-string man got his powers, only if he has a cool/brain twisting adventure
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
Nah, what made it really cool was that he only recorded the voice as filler until they could cast the final voice talent...and then they decided it was too cool to replace.
06/16/09
Marvels as a movie would be (potentially) awesome. Not every comic book movie has to be filled from start to finish with punches and splodey stuff. A bit more humanity, with enough super effects stuff to keep people interested and sell tickets.
06/16/09
THat would be an interesting read.
06/16/09
If you have not read them, you would likely enjoy the 'Gotham Central' graphic novels. They feature Gotham City cops--ordinary people--dealing with the utterly bizarre world of the superhero. Despite the superhero context, the plots, characters, and art are all naturalistic. It seems like this could be our world if our cops had to periodically tangle with superpowers.
'Powers' covers some of the same ground (it might have been first, I can't recall exactly), but I didn't like the art style has much. But still good and worth a read if you like the concept!
@Magicant:
I've thought that 'Kingdom Come' would be a tremendously interesting film, mostly because the book features Superman facing a problem he cannot solve with his fists. From what few Superman stories I've seen and read, I've thought that he was at his most compelling when he had to make hard moral choices and have wondered if that would make a compelling movie.
06/16/09
Ever read Red Son?
06/16/09
06/16/09
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06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
I watc...oh, wait, no that was The Phantom. Nev'mind.
@TheAlmanac:
Alec Baldwin has a knack for comedy? I'm pretty sure he can't even act. All he's really got in his bag of tricks is that "listen to how cool I sound" voice, and I respond with a resounding, "Meh."
06/17/09
06/17/09
Yeah, it can keep begging. 30 Rock makes me want to throw large objects at the TV screen, and doubly so when Baldwin is hackting his way across the screen. Triply so when he does his stupid "I'm important" half-turn in the opening credits.
06/16/09
Or to put it another way - my wife, who (to grossly over-simplify it) thinks cartoons are for kids and super-heroes are for young men, will stop everything to watch The Incredibles when it comes on.
So yes, brilliant writing and outstanding characters - I'm all for copying that.
06/16/09
Unfortunately, the Hollywood mentality is "ZOMG, Pixar movies are all CGI, and they all rake in the cash. If we make _our_ movies using CGI, they'll also be more popular!" These people need to be spanked to within an inch of their lives with a limp carp.
06/16/09
06/18/09
06/16/09
1) Shamelessly mine an original text, shot-by-shot and frame-by-frame, while alienating the creator of that text and pretty much replicating everything that was weak or problematic about the original.
2) Use the superhero metaphor in order to make a fairly boring, sexist claim about what happens when women have power (i.e., they're irrational and hysterical).
4) Make an otherwise underwhelming and/or outright embarrassingly bad film which nevertheless features genre elements and can therefore get away with it because, really, comic fanboys aren't discerning filmgoers anyway, right?
5) Call in Pixar.
6) Pull the "cowboys in space" routine and make it a superhero comedy.
Charlie Jane, I love your stuff on this site and I appreciate your moving beyond the more obvious choices (The Dark Knight, Bryan Singer's first X-Men) for this list. But, at the same time, I can't help but think you aren't sort of scraping the bottom of the barrel in some cases. If by "breaking the mold" you mean "decidedly niche" or "so-bad-it's-good," then fine. But God help us if Zack Snyder becomes the inspiration for anything besides bad art school film theses.
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09
06/16/09