I do not understand the hard on you all have for Mr. Whedon. He is just not that good. With the exception of Firefly (and I suppose that online singalong thing he did), all his other efforts have been mediocre at best (Buffy, Angel) or downright terrible (Dollhouse).
Given the amount of cyberink spilled at IO9 fellating and fluffing Joss, I am forced to conclude that he is a paying sponsor of this site and as such there should be a disclaimer stating it as such. Nothing else makes sense. #terminator
@RonaldusMagnus: As you might guess, I feel something similar. I've made this analogy before: a friend of mine was cornered by someone who would not let him go until he admitted that Frank Zappa was the greatest musical artist of our time. Now, I don'r mind Zappa, but really...
The other analogy is from a movie magazine which said that despite what some movie geeks believe, Bruce Campbell is not "perfect" for every role. #terminator
@RonaldusMagnus: This is a hard one -- it's a bit like explaining why you pick a particular religion. :) In the end, it's love -- there is a context there for Whedon's work that fans connect with, very difficult to point at intellectually and describe in non-specific terms. For me, I guess, it's the self-effacing dialogue and self-awareness characters seem to have of themselves ... again, very hard to describe. There is a very gentle layer of absurdity and humor that pervades Whedon's work (and by this, I mean how his characters interact and talk) and it makes everything kind of hyper-aware...self-awareness is the best (yet inefficient) way to describe it. Characters know what they are.
This is the same essence that is found in really good stand-up comedians, but again, very subtle here. It kind of pervades everything. It's a language, either you connect with it, or you don't.
Also, I guess, the characters are so fully realized. They feel real, like real people. Serenity/Firefly is the best example for me of this.
I have been a die-hard Whedon fan since Buffy. The guy just blows me away. He has characters in his head. i think Dollhouse was his most complicated endeavor to date ... it was hard communicating that stuff onto the screen. But there was something there to mind-wipes and new personalities for each mission, *and* the moral/ethical dilemmas surrounding each one. (not to mention the doll's interactiosn when outside of missions). A lot going on there. #terminator
I'd much rather see Josh Friedman own the franchise. Or both Josh and Joss owning, writing, and co-directing Terminator movies. All other Sci Fi can just go home at that point.
@mjedm6001: JOSH FRIEDMAN? The guy who wrote the crappy screenplays for War of The Worlds and Black Dahlia?
I know I'm being bitter here, but seriously, I don't know why, say, Orci and Kurtzmann get dumped on so much and a hack like Friedman is considered the future of sci-fi. #terminator
@Wookie1972: Well, to be fair, mjedm6001 didn't call Friedman "the future of sci-fi", he just said he'd like to see Friedman direct the Terminator franchise.
You do know that Friedman wrote TSCC, I presume? And that many people liked TSCC, to put it mildly?
The last time Joss tried to salvage the smoldering ruins of a James Cameron creation (okay, so he didn't make alien, but he *made* the franchise), we got Alien Resurrection.
Alien Resurrection was pretty good, actually.
Let the man work. The weakest part of Salvation was the shitty script anyway. Him and McG might actually be able to make something passably good. #terminator
Cameron "made" the Alien franchise? Give me a break. The original movie was a colossal hit, and most of it had to do with O'Bannon and Shusett's ideas, and the rest had to do with Giger's designs, which Cameron tried his best not to use. #terminator
"The money is there, but more importantly, the heart is there. But more importantly, money. "
Lmao. I don't even know why people wonder why we love this man. He is awesome and he would make the franchise so great. Someone please! MAKE. THIS. HAPPEN! #terminator
I had no clue what Firefly was until about 3 days ago, I love it, I love this man and I have complete and utter faith that any SF project he takes on will be amazing (and to save money, he should just offer 10k for Mr. Bale) #terminator
@omnibus_spiritus: Has he been butchering that? I didn't really like the concept when I heard about it, but thinking of giving the 1st season a try. #terminator
@Stndsh0: There are a couple of good ones in there but the series has really struggled to get some direction. Most comments on this site are negative but once in a while a good episode appears to give some hope. Looks like it's in the sites of cancellation though. #terminator
As a fan of 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer', starring such veritable names as Dylan from Beverly Hills 90210, Peewee Herman, Roy the Replicant, the Karate Kid 4 Chick and Donald Sutherland; 'Astonishing X-men' which I paid a s**tload for the first printings (mainly because John Cassaday makes it worth the monies); and for giving David Boreanaz the chance to shine in 'Angel' - especially the muppet episode which was genius by the way - I hold great hopes for your Terminator.
In some ways you are the perfect choice. I mean, you could use your abandoned Waterworld script, and perhaps instead of electrical storms for the time travel scenes, you could use twisters, I know you already have experience in writing such scenes. Also having co write Toy Story, you have a perfect understanding of the underdog vs the new, stronger, better toy. Doghouse also shows this.
There would be no justice in the world if the Terminator owners turned down this more than generous offer.
Just wanted to say, Alien Resurrection is my all time favourite Alien movie. You are a genius.
@Jeremy Tapsell: Yeah, except that if anyone says it wasn't awesome - or that anything else Whedon had a hand in wasn't awesome - apperently it was because someone else rewrote it.
Yeah, I know, I know, I'm hard on the guy. #terminator
@Wookie1972: @Wookie1972: You know, it's cool to be critical of someone's work...but this seems more personal somehow, and it's just factually inaccurate. Multiple writers on a project happens to be common practice in Hollywood, especially the stuff that he's talking about, like Alien-Resurrection and X-Men 3. Those movies are franchises and, once a studio gets heavily involved, usually ends up with more writers than a project should really have.
You can go watch eps of Buffy and Angel and Firefly that he wrote and get an accurate view of his writing style. Or go back and watch some Roseanne eps from earlier seasons, he wrote some of those as well. Even if it's not your style, he can write.
He's never claimed that he wasn't involved in those movies, he's just openly discussed the very real practice of how some scripts are constructed, altered, and script doctored (something he has also been employed to do).
Whether you like his writing or not is a personal taste thing. But there's really no reason to keep accusing him of somehow making up his level of involvement in some films that didn't turn out great. You'll find stuff like that in any working writers resume. #terminator
@tiredfairy: It's personal because people go on and on here about how brilliant he is, and how his characters are the greatest things that have been created in the history of the universe. But I'm sorry, but it seems like he's someone who is never satisfied. Firefly's demise wasn't due to the show, it was due to the network (which he still chose to work with for Dollhouse). Alien Resurrection was the director's fault, even though he concedes that they didn't change his script all that much. He seems like a control freak, and I don't like control freaks, period, i'm sorry.I acknowledge that he can write. But i get tired of people quoting his stuff like it's Gospel - which happens a LOT on here. Or giving him credit for adding the letter "y" to the ends of words, as if that was a fantastic contribution to the English language. And btw, it's not just Whedon. I feel the same way about Kevin Smith and Diablo Cody. It's just that those two rarely get mentioned on I09.
Who is Joss Whedon?!?! REALLY!!?!?! okay let's review... Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Serenity(Movie), Firefly (series based off of serenity), Dollhouse... you know what I'll just stop right there.. for real, and you people are on a site that sings the praises of science fiction.. he is a master and you guys are all slow as fuck.. go play WOW with the rest of the ambivalent nerds.
@AshThePirate: If you have any extra lozenges, can you ship some over to Joe Fiennes on the set of FLASH FORWARD? My wife and I have been asking each other if maybe he can only do the American accent when he whispers, but maybe it's because he just has a sore throat. #terminator
11/04/09
jedm6001
"I'd much rather see Josh Friedman own the franchise."
YES! Done and DONE! Aside from one episode, (yeah, THAT hospital mess) I thought what he did with T:TSCC was superb!
OK. Let's start passing the hat around! #terminator
11/03/09
Given the amount of cyberink spilled at IO9 fellating and fluffing Joss, I am forced to conclude that he is a paying sponsor of this site and as such there should be a disclaimer stating it as such. Nothing else makes sense. #terminator
11/04/09
The other analogy is from a movie magazine which said that despite what some movie geeks believe, Bruce Campbell is not "perfect" for every role. #terminator
11/04/09
This is the same essence that is found in really good stand-up comedians, but again, very subtle here. It kind of pervades everything. It's a language, either you connect with it, or you don't.
Also, I guess, the characters are so fully realized. They feel real, like real people. Serenity/Firefly is the best example for me of this.
I have been a die-hard Whedon fan since Buffy. The guy just blows me away. He has characters in his head. i think Dollhouse was his most complicated endeavor to date ... it was hard communicating that stuff onto the screen. But there was something there to mind-wipes and new personalities for each mission, *and* the moral/ethical dilemmas surrounding each one. (not to mention the doll's interactiosn when outside of missions). A lot going on there. #terminator
11/03/09
11/03/09
11/03/09
I know I'm being bitter here, but seriously, I don't know why, say, Orci and Kurtzmann get dumped on so much and a hack like Friedman is considered the future of sci-fi. #terminator
11/03/09
You do know that Friedman wrote TSCC, I presume? And that many people liked TSCC, to put it mildly?
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/02/09
Alien Resurrection was pretty good, actually.
Let the man work. The weakest part of Salvation was the shitty script anyway. Him and McG might actually be able to make something passably good. #terminator
11/03/09
Cameron "made" the Alien franchise? Give me a break. The original movie was a colossal hit, and most of it had to do with O'Bannon and Shusett's ideas, and the rest had to do with Giger's designs, which Cameron tried his best not to use. #terminator
11/02/09
Lmao. I don't even know why people wonder why we love this man. He is awesome and he would make the franchise so great. Someone please! MAKE. THIS. HAPPEN! #terminator
11/03/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/03/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/03/09
11/03/09
11/02/09
Thank god it's a joke. #terminator
11/03/09
11/03/09
11/03/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/02/09
As a fan of 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer', starring such veritable names as Dylan from Beverly Hills 90210, Peewee Herman, Roy the Replicant, the Karate Kid 4 Chick and Donald Sutherland; 'Astonishing X-men' which I paid a s**tload for the first printings (mainly because John Cassaday makes it worth the monies); and for giving David Boreanaz the chance to shine in 'Angel' - especially the muppet episode which was genius by the way - I hold great hopes for your Terminator.
In some ways you are the perfect choice. I mean, you could use your abandoned Waterworld script, and perhaps instead of electrical storms for the time travel scenes, you could use twisters, I know you already have experience in writing such scenes. Also having co write Toy Story, you have a perfect understanding of the underdog vs the new, stronger, better toy. Doghouse also shows this.
There would be no justice in the world if the Terminator owners turned down this more than generous offer.
Just wanted to say, Alien Resurrection is my all time favourite Alien movie. You are a genius.
Sincerely,
Jeremy xxx #terminator
11/02/09
11/02/09
Jean-Pierre Jeunet directed, Whedon wrote the script. #terminator
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/03/09
It was awesome. #terminator
11/03/09
Yeah, I know, I know, I'm hard on the guy. #terminator
11/03/09
You can go watch eps of Buffy and Angel and Firefly that he wrote and get an accurate view of his writing style. Or go back and watch some Roseanne eps from earlier seasons, he wrote some of those as well. Even if it's not your style, he can write.
He's never claimed that he wasn't involved in those movies, he's just openly discussed the very real practice of how some scripts are constructed, altered, and script doctored (something he has also been employed to do).
Whether you like his writing or not is a personal taste thing. But there's really no reason to keep accusing him of somehow making up his level of involvement in some films that didn't turn out great. You'll find stuff like that in any working writers resume. #terminator
11/04/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
Nice try. Next time you try trolling do it better. #terminator
11/02/09
11/03/09
11/03/09
Other way around. #terminator
11/02/09
Can we all just start sending Bale lozenges? #terminator
11/02/09
unlike tube poker..... #terminator
11/03/09
@AshThePirate: If you have any extra lozenges, can you ship some over to Joe Fiennes on the set of FLASH FORWARD? My wife and I have been asking each other if maybe he can only do the American accent when he whispers, but maybe it's because he just has a sore throat. #terminator