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San Francisco, 11:32 AM
Sun Nov 22
11 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/05/09
11/06/09
11/06/09
11/05/09
Yeah. I have to say I was unimpressed.
I could get the "Obama bashing" ref, I suppose. Seemed a little ham-handed, especially when they interposed alien-Anna's calm message with crazy resistance guy's ramblings.
I found the dialog pretty bad. The characters were pretty difficult for me to like, especially the teenagers. I especially couldn't understand the priest and his deal with God and aliens.
The narrative felt rushed and choppy. There didn't feel like there was any real chemistry between the actors and it made the human race (at least the representatives of the human race in New York) seem pretty gullible and stupid.
Can't say I'm tempted to watch more of this.
Oh, and our secret weapon? That line alone made me taste bile. Saaaaaapppy....
11/05/09
It's not "Obama bashing" per say it's just pointing out how willingly humans will follow any leader that promises them the moon and the stars. For the dems it's Obama right now (whom I still have hope for but admit am deeply disappointed in that nothing has really changed) and in the 80's it was Regan for the conservatives. Regan's campaigns were all about hope and change and all that.
They used UHC because it's topical. That's all. And it wasn't the Vee who said it it was the "talking head" reporter who spun it that way.
Anyways, the show was way rushed and I had a hard time with everyone buying the aliens as purveyors of awesomeness so quickly.
I also didn't get the priest's assertions that "this is the perfect time to come with all of us in turmoil." Ugh, humans are ALWAYS in turmoil and it's ALWAYS the perfect time to come. We're always divided and in fact I'd say this isn't as terrible a time as it was, say, 5 years ago or any other time. I just hate when people get all melodramatic with the "this is the worst place we've been in yet!" stuff without stepping back at other times in history.
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11/05/09
Nope, it's just bad TV.
Not only that, it can't be propaganda unless the government does it.
-Kle. #v
11/05/09
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11/05/09
He's pretty, and charismatic. It worked for JFK and, you know, Hollywood.
-Kle. #v
11/05/09
11/06/09
11/04/09
Here's an idea, don't watch them on TV and don't read their BS articles. You just might start thinking for yourself. #v
11/05/09
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11/05/09
you're drawing a distinction with the fact that this is a blog that is without difference to what it is being compared.
11/04/09
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11/04/09
I'm also rather glad that the male lead is a Catholic priest, thus, hopefully we'll be spared tiresome romantic tension between Erica and Father Jack. (Unless he starts reconsidering his vows...at which point I'll start pounding my head on my set.) #v
11/04/09
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11/04/09
They probably had to leave out the scientists characters because they would have immediately have called out the Visitors on the "we need your water" BS, and would have asked Anna why they could have just picked up all the water they wanted from the Oort cloud, Kuiper Belt, or any of the millions of other objects in the outer solar system on their way to Earth. #v
11/05/09
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11/04/09
The original V stands as a masterpiece in comparison. #v
11/04/09
11/04/09
This was pretty two dimensional. #v
11/05/09
11/04/09
So what the hell happened after the massacre at the rebel cell meeting?
Instead of calling for her swarms of backup, who would have found mountains of evidence of the 'V' plot including her dead/disabled partner with his lizard face showing through the flesh, she inexplicably (as far as I reckon) slinks away the the priest as though SHE HERSELF was being hunted by the police.
WTF ! ! !
Help me—can anyone explain that to me?
It really damaged my ability to buy in to the story. #v
11/04/09
11/04/09
The teenager was stupid and annoying, but I would stress that his counterpart in the original series was *exactly like that*
Meanwhile, ironically, the character I liked most - the Fifth Column Visitor who had basically deserted while a sleeper agent spy on Earth - was ultimately the most enjoyable; largely because he was the most "conflicted" while everyone else largely went with the flow
As stated below by someone else, if there are a few digs against "big government Democrats" (btw...how was the Bush Administration anything BUT "big government", as evidenced by the Libertarians that abandoned their ticket in 2008 because they didn't reflect their values anymore).......HOWEVER, a major point about the Visitors is that they just strip mine one planet to the next, they squandered their own planet's natural resources, and they've very anti-environmentalist.
****Notice the point when the journalist actually asks "hey, what's your planet like?" (perhaps the only cutting question he asked) but Anna just gives a blithe "it's nice and full of green continents and beautiful oceans" BS. Me thinks the lady doth protest too much. #v
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Maybe the writers will bring this up later but for now he's just a horny teenager.
11/04/09
Anyway, some would say it was fast and cheesy, but on closer reflection; at least it wasn't like Heroes where they draw out a simple plot over many many episodes; within ONE episode they got us to the OBVIOUS, we all KNOW this in a remake point that, "yes, they're lizard-men and they're invading"...so moving fast has its own merits.
In terms of huge changes from the original, I thought the "alien sleeper agent who changes his mind" sounded like a drastic departure, but it turned out to be not that different from the Fifth Column Visitors in the original series:
The Visitor leadership are basically Nazis who took over their planet and decided it wasn't big enough for them, and now want to take over all worlds, but there are Visitors...possibly not an organized movement per se, but "traitors and deserters" who don't like their leadership.
****The biggest functional change from the original was that they say that the Visitors infiltrated Earth's culture a while ago, using their own "Sleeper cells" to soften us up for an invasion. While this may seem like a big 21st century War on Terror change....realistically, that's how major wars have been fought for a while; send in a wave of spies first. Plus its actually a more logical explanation for how they got human DNA to grow their flesh-suits out of.
So it was like the Fifth Column Visitors from the original....just that his "job" wasn't just "guy on mothership" but he was assigned to the "Spy Corps" as it were....I actually thought he was one of the more interesting characters by the end.
****Did anyone else get a "They Live" vibe off of this? I say that in a good way: the idea is that the "Sleeper cell" Visitors weren't just spying but laying the groundwork for takeover, by intentionally starting brushfire wars, engineering stock market collapses, funding/leading normal human religious fundamentalist sects.....basically, in Star Trek, humanity took First Contact with the Vulcans RIGHT AFTER World War 3 as a reason to band together and unite. The Visitors' plan was to ENGINEER the various 21st century problems (insurgency-style warfare/religious terrorism, everywhere, economic collapse, environmental damage)....so that they could sweep in and look like an excuse to promote "world peace" and "Save us"....under the Visitors. Somewhat similar to "Jericho" too; engineering an excuse to need to be "saved";
****not that much of a "spoiler" but neat Idea I like: an individual "Infiltrator-Visitor" can die, but they've got the DNA of the human flesh suit on file and thus while Alan Tudyk's FBI Agent Visitor can "die", they'll send some different Visitor Agent "wearing his skin" to keep pretending to be him.
The teenager WAS ridiculously dumb, but then again, his counterpart in the original series was also basically a troubled, not-too-smart kid just looking for approval who ended up stupidly joining the Visitors because they'd put him in a position of authority.
That's what happens in a resistance situation; the only people leaping at a chance to collaborate are the social rejects who can't get a position otherwise.
***I walked in expecting to hate this show, and while it has the usual kinks to work out (it's not Hugo-worthy yet), I can honestly say I was more optimistic for the series by the end.
The "Universal Healthcare" line did strike me as kind of..."uh...are you just blatantly making fun of the Democrats"? #v
11/04/09
And there's our conservative party explained in a nutshell. #v
11/04/09
So, no I don't think it's intentionally about Obama. We're just reading into it. But, there were references to GWB in tons of movies and tv shows over the last 8 years, so there's a chance that someday the great Obama will be criticized, but I predict it will be in the loving way that "The Rock Obama" skits SNL do, they playfully punch your arm then give you a hug afterwards.
Answer: No. It is not anti-Obama propaganda.
And, I really enjoyed it.
11/04/09
Thank you for speaking for them en masse Cylon Conspiracy. #v
11/04/09
11/04/09
So actually you're the one exaggerating. You completely mis-characterized what I said.
All that other stuff is just your prejudice of what a liberal is. None of the liberals I know are like that, they just really don't like republicans, and they worship Obama. That doesn't mean they act like weirdos.
What are some shows you think I should watch that have a conservative slant to them? I'm always up for a new show or movie for my Netflix account.
And BTW, Berkeley is in one of the most beautiful and cool parts of the entire country. Absolutely love it up there.
11/04/09
Also Obama is hardly the savior he promoted himself as. He is just as bad as any other American President only more charming and eloquent, which is actually scarier. #v
11/04/09
But I don't see the correlation. The actual programming is very "liberal" slanted. I'm talking about the stuff that gets on the air/screen.
But, I agree that Obama is not the savior he promoted himself as, and I also agree that his charm and eloquence can mask his real motives (which I take as being not in our best interest).
Obviously charm and eloquence aren't bad things, but they sure can misdirect someone. And that is sad because those are genuine gifts for someone to have.
11/04/09
Most US programing seems to be quite filtered (to use Choamsky/Hermans idea) and creates an ideal identity of conservatism. The American Dream of financial success and Celebrity; of the white picket fence and friendly policemen; of the evil poor people who infect citys... I feel more inclined to see Hollywood as being less liberal than it likes to promote itself. It is still a completely biased industry in gender race and economy. #v
11/04/09
Meanwhile your proclamations that liberals worship Obama is some serious stereotyping. I've heard from a number of people who would describe themselves as liberal who've had some problems or at least misgivings with him of late. It's a tough job and you can't please everyone on either side, including his own.
Also, all liberals don't hate Republicans. Some do, the partisan ones. But it's also vice versa for Republicans. Some are partisan and hate anything and everything liberal and some don't. Again, you are making grand sweeping statements about some liberal Nazi state in Hollywood that forces conservatives to go underground. It sounds like paranoia to me which is probably why you like this show.
re: "But, I agree that Obama is not the savior he promoted himself as, and I also agree that his charm and eloquence can mask his real motives"
He's an EVIL lizard, doncha know? #v
11/04/09
11/05/09
Thanks for the personal attacks. Those are always helpful.
All that stuff you said about liberals is foolish, I know you were being sarcastic but I don't think liberals act that way. Don't transfer your own misconceptions and stereotypes onto me. I'd hate to hear your "sarcastic" view of how conservatives are.
And I never made the assertion that V was about Obama, so I take it your comment about him being an evil lizard was your own thing.
I like V because I like science fiction. I was a kid when the original miniseries was on and was a fan for that reason. I still remember being a kid in my grandmother's living room watching that first "away shuttle" leaving the mothership to meet the humans. That's why I like it. Not because I'm paranoid.
I assume you are a sci-fi fan too and your interest in genre entertainment is not the result of some character defect.
I spent 8 years hearing about how evil Bush was and how he was a dictator. You're just going to have to adjust to the shoe being on the other foot, unless of course every time Bush was criticized you came to his defense. From what you've said to me so far, I doubt that was the case.
11/05/09
If you can't tell the difference there is nothing I can do to help that.
For what it's worth, while I was no fan of George W. Bush, I wouldn't automatically dismiss or criticize everything he said or did either.
At very first I supported the war in Iraq because I felt that those people deserve a better leader than Saddam Hussein.
But then I realized George, like Ronald Moore's cylons, really had no plan at all. #v
11/05/09
I didn't figure you were a fan of GWB, I just wonder if when people made negative comments about him, you got just as upset with them over it as any of my comments about Obama.
11/05/09
I'm not upset about George Bush or Obama. They are adults and can take care of themselves. I am sure they will both be just fine and are well used to being criticized.
I don't really care, I just don't want to be slapped in the face with over the top blatantly obvious political allegory from EITHER side (I wasn't a fan of the Battlestar Iraqtica story ark on BSG either and that was anti-Bush). For one it ruins my suspension of disbelief and for another if I want to hear that I will watch the news.
I'd rather draw my own parallels than having them force fed to me, even yes ones I agree with.
I also think it's a ridiculous over generalization to say everyone associated with entertainment media is uber liberal and would never produce an anti-liberal allegory piece. There's all types out there. Including yes in the entertainment business.
Now go on and have the last word. You clearly need to have it. #v
11/05/09
I keep pointing out what my original words were, and you keep saying that I said "all". Read it again until it sinks in that I never said what you keep saying.
I don't trust Obama. You are free to. Not trusting a president does not mean you think they are out to destroy the world. I sure don't think he has America's best interests at heart though. But, he is the freaking president of the United States, yes he can handle the criticism, and I don't think comments on a sci-fi message board are going to bother him all that much.
This thread is called "Is V Anti-Obama Propaganda?"
People are going to be talking about Obama in the context of whatever they think the show is about. That's the point of the thread.