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Fri Dec 4
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Heard about this, and as a full-blooded Korean, I'm obligated to watch anything with Korean stars in it. That it's Park Chan-Wook's film that stars Song Kang-Ho is the cherry on top.
Note: that still doesn't mean I'm watching GI Joe, Lee Byung-Hun's American debut (as Storm Shadow, fyi). Can't believe that dude went from a modern cinema classic in The Good, the Bad, and the Weird to GI "starring Dennis Quaid" Joe.
Much as I like his movies, I am getting Park Chan-Wook fatigue. Maybe it's because the Vengeance trilogy felt like rehashing of the same theme and tone instead of deeper exploration of a theme.
I wouldn't mind a return to something more like JSA, wherein the characters were actually relateable, instead of something like the Vengeance trilogy, that seemed like just pushing a character as far as they could go before they snap, and voyeuristically watching their descent. Thirst seems more like the latter, unfortunately (please tell me I'm wrong!). I get that people are fragile and corruptable, Mr. Park, I'm just not sure I want to devote another 2 hours to a movie it feels like I've watched two or three times before.
I read that the problem wasn't the running time as much as Chan-Wooks inability to stick to his genre, meaning he throws in whatever comes to mind, which doesn't always work.
@Illogic: No, that wasn't the problem. The problem was that he doesn't know when to end scenes. Genre-crossing is always a good thing, but this movie didn't really leave the vampire genre behind at any point. It was just a really weird and original take on the vampire genre.
@Annalee Newitz: this is where I look like a film snob, but your notion of not knowing when to end a scene puzzles me. With a filmmaker as pointed and nuanced as Chan-wook, the viewer has to ask himself what is Chan-wook trying to do with these lengthened sequences. Do they run long for either tone, character, or story? While Korean films are far more commercially oriented and Americanized than, say, Japanese cinema, and far more plot-driven than character, Chan-wook is far too good a craftsman to let things run long needlessly. As a reviewer, you have to figure out the "why's" and not just react subjectively to the film. You touch on that in the second-to-last paragraph, but then you sell your insight short with two words, "perhaps" and "artful." "Perhaps," because you're questioning your own judgement, and "artful" because it's as if you're questioning the filmmaker's intent and merits with respect to YOUR notions as what constitutes "art." Be it high brow, or low brow, all cinema is art as it reflects the filmmaker's desire to express an idea.
I haven't seen the film, but from your description, it sounds as if those extra, almost repetitive, scenes you mention regarding the subplot are present to provide contextual counterpoints to the main events. I'm curious, did the couple's guilt feel weightier or lifted with each subsequent scene?
@Allen_Richards: I'm certain he was trying to use these scenes to convey the intensity of his characters' emotions, but as a critic I didn't think they worked. Just because somebody uses an artistic device doesn't mean their work automatically becomes more artful.
But really my complaints about this film were extremely minor. I thought a lot of the drawn-out, weird scenes worked well to convey a sense of unease, and I made that quite clear in my review.
@Annalee Newitz: And this is where you keep loosing me. Please don't think I'm trying to bust your balls here, or criticize your writing - as someone who's been reviewing for almost 10 years I know how frustrating that can be (especially when I already know just how lousy I am and don't really need some jerk pointing it out) - that's not what I'm trying to do. You just keep touching upon something that I personally can't jive with, and it's most likely due to the filmmaker in me, so please just consider the source... It's these references to "artistic" merits. Film is art, period. Be it John Waters filming Divine eating doggy poo, Andy Warhol filmming a static shot of a building for 6 hours, or Chan-wook's "cinematic device" of repetitive action. Nothing can make a film "more artful," something either is, or isn't, art, but a filmmaker can use a variety of cinematic devices to convey his intent. I definitely understand what you're trying to say, and you're right, a reviewers job is to respond subjectively and convey that response, generally based on personal taste, to their readers...which you did wonderfully. This is really just me be hung up on cinematic symantics, like the big dork that I am... ;)
Annalee, please forgive me for interjecting something that has absolutely nothing in common with the subject of this thread except the fact that it's also about a movie.
Have you seen Big Man Japan? Can you write a review for it?
Here's an excerpt of Ebert's review:
Well, I guess this is the movie I’ve been asking for. Whenever I see a superhero epic, I’m always nagged by logical questions -- like, when the Incredible Hulk becomes enormous, how do his undershorts also expand? "Big Man Japan" answers that question with admirable clarity. Before the Big Man grows, workers winch an enormous pair of undershorts up on two poles, and he straddles the crotch. Then he expands to fill them. Had to be something like that.
@Roklimber:
Ebert's review from a few months ago is what turned me onto the film. You could see he wanted something like this from HANCOCK, but just didn't get it...
BMJ streeted this week and I caught it Tuesday. The first 30 minutes are so subtle that it's barely the comedy its billed as, but as it goes along it ventures off into some inspired everyday lunacy. It's like a mumblecore Kaiju...
@Annalee Newitz:
Came out last week on DVD. It is quite amusing, but I wonder if a lot of the Japanese in-jokes will soar over people's heads.
The ending is amazing.
@Plague: No, it's not amazing, it's F*CKING AMAZING!!! ;) A brilliant bit of meta-cinema that completely had me guessing as to the validity of the 100 minutes prior. Was it all just the delusion of a kid's show Kaiju? Wishful fantasy? Or was the ending itself a JACOB'S LADDER-like final dream? Who knows, who cares - it was just the pitch perfect note of crazy to end on...
Does the country still harbor that much anti-American sentiment, or was that ending just the filmmaker's way paying thematic homage to the king of Kaiju, Gojira?? BMJ is a pretty scathing indictment of Japanese pop-culture and sheep-like mentality w/ regard to fads, not to mention the younger society's pack-like tendencies towards the weak (ie. bullying). Are American's supposed to be the Kaiju Bully Kings???
Didn't you just love Big Man's reaction to everything taking place?
Hey, why no spoiler alert? I can't really say much more than that, because as soon as I got a sense I'd be learning plot, I had to avert my eyes. Oh, naughty, naughty spoilers!
@Boas_MC: Well, the post is labeled "Movie Review". I don't honestly know why you needed more warning than that. What do you expect, some sort of giant Drudge Report siren to alert you?
@Boas_MC: I added a spoiler alert, but really it's a movie review so some aspects of the plot are going to be in it. I didn't spoil any of the major reveals.
@Annalee Newitz: I'll give you that, and I'll throw in a case of Tru Blood. I had conveniently ignored the nice "Movie Review" label right smack above the title. This may be a sign of visual processing deficiencies, and so a nice, ear-piercing siren could indeed do the trick (though please, nothing Drudge-related). Now I'll go off and tuck my head in shame...
Now how could you make a list like this, and leave out Rev. Nicholas D. Wolfwood from the Trigun series? Dude's weapon was a modified machine gun and rocket launcher-packing Cross. Now that's how you deliver the wrath of God unto the wicked.
@Cash907Censored:Yeah, but this article is about evil priests, right? So Wolfwood (badass though he be) is out, despite his previous misdeeds, however; his teacher, Chapel the Evergreen, is still in the running.
Easily my least favorite of all horror conventions to emerge in contemporary cinema, but ever since the first kid-touching priest hit the evening news, they're all over the place in cinema and books. It's easy to use them as a villain since their very concept represents absolute betrayal, not just as a servant of God gone awry, but as the one person a protagonist should be able to turn to, in completely blind and absolute trust, for support only to find their undoing. Every time I now see the Evil Priest I can't help but think it's just lazy writing and the inability to come up with something new.
Of course, by now, everyone knows of the dubious histories of the various churches as Christianity evolved, and as society has become more civilized, atrocities in the name of God on the magnitude of The Inquisition or The Crusades are less common (although, if rumors are true, and Dubya really was talking to Baby Jesus, then we're in the midst of one now...) These characters automatically bring with them that history of menace and it provides writers with a way out of having to come up with a convincing backstory for a character. Why bother when you have 2000 years of history to provide all the menace you want???
Is it really that hard to write a priest as 99.999% of them actually are - good people who have decided to live a life of service?
That being said, there's one Evil Priest so badass that he could only be played by Robert Mitchum. As Harry Powell in the classic NIGHT OF THE HUNTER (a noir with serious horror overtones), Mitchum is so iconic that Spike Lee even lifted an entire speech of his for DO THE RIGHT THING in order to give Radio Raheem some character. Most of today's cinema audiences don't even realize the impact Powell has on today's cinema - even THE BLUE BROTHERS lifts ideas from this one.
@Allen_Richards: One of my favorite writers, Joe Lansdale, who openly writes about his dislike for religion, has never once written a priest in a positive light (see Mucho Mojo for Joe's take on priests at their most extreme, or his short story "By Bizarre Hands").
In the recent io9 review of an anthology Joe edited, SON OF RETRO PULP TALES, it's mentioned that he revives a character from his zombie western classic, DEAD IN THE WEST - Reverend Jebediah Mercer. Mercer might actually be the most well-rounded of the "evil" priests that I've come across, and I use the word "evil" liberally here. He's certainly doing his best to serve the lord, but he's done some murdering in his past, which might explain why he's so good at killin' zombies. His current sins seem more prone to the "of the flesh" variety.
@Allen_Richards:
These Triviagasams rarely include things without pictures although Dead in the West was adapted into a series for Dark Horse Comics. This is the cover for the non-graphical novel.
@Grey_Area: It's been ages since i've read the comic adaptation, and if I remember correctly it was only two issues.
Lansdale seemed to have an in at Dark Horse back in the mid-90's as they also released the 3-issue mini of BY BIZARRE HANDS (I never could figure out why Avatar adapted 2 of the same stories for their 6 issue BBH mini).
In case anyone is interested, you might still be able to find ATOMIC CHILI: THE ILLUSTRATED JOE R. LANSDALE which includes both mini's, among other things.
@Allen_Richards: Seeing as how you mentioned things being done in the name of religion it doesn't matter that W wasn't talking to Jesus. As long as he said he was then it qualifies.
Now, as for things actually done on the behalf of God...that only counts if God actually asked them to.
Don Filippo Neri from State Buoni Se Potete. Not a very famous flick but we had a copy when I was growing up and man-o-man did it creep the shit out of me.
Father Hennessy from Constantine. He wasn't evil in any sense of the word but his creepy eyes and deathly pallor were enough to make me want him dead. He looks possessed.
Silas from The Da Vinci Code. I didn't like the movie but a demented albino, penitante who could probably put up a good fight with Bond? Yeah. Win.
Eli Sunday from There Will Be Blood. If you don't know, I can't explain.
Cardinal Richelieu from The Three Muskateers. He even has the awesome moustache to boot.
Cardinal Rourk from Sin City. He aids, abets and loves a creepy hobbit cannibal. Plus, heeee's sooo paaale.
Mola Ram? from The Temple of Doom. He...can...take...your...heart...
and
Harry Powell from The Night of the Hunter. He's sexy, evil and was the first dude to get tattoos on his fists.
Allen_Richards promoted this comment
Dr.Quatermass: I have to say Dr. You are once again spot on with that oberservation and anything I am about to say that contradicts this statement is strictly for humor sake. was starred
Dr.Quatermass: I have to say Dr. You are once again spot on with that oberservation and anything I am about to say that contradicts this statement is strictly for humor sake. was unstarred
Dr.Quatermass: I have to say Dr. You are once again spot on with that oberservation and anything I am about to say that contradicts this statement is strictly for humor sake. was starred
Dr.Quatermass: I have to say Dr. You are once again spot on with that oberservation and anything I am about to say that contradicts this statement is strictly for humor sake. was unstarred
08/01/09
08/01/09
08/30/09
08/01/09
Any decent fan of comic books, casual or no, has to read Astro City: Confession. Brilliant Batman-inspired story from the perspective of the sidekick.
08/01/09
07/31/09
Note: that still doesn't mean I'm watching GI Joe, Lee Byung-Hun's American debut (as Storm Shadow, fyi). Can't believe that dude went from a modern cinema classic in The Good, the Bad, and the Weird to GI "starring Dennis Quaid" Joe.
08/01/09
08/03/09
...then again, Depp's acting debut was in Nightmare to Elm Street, so I suppose there's still time.
07/31/09
I wouldn't mind a return to something more like JSA, wherein the characters were actually relateable, instead of something like the Vengeance trilogy, that seemed like just pushing a character as far as they could go before they snap, and voyeuristically watching their descent. Thirst seems more like the latter, unfortunately (please tell me I'm wrong!). I get that people are fragile and corruptable, Mr. Park, I'm just not sure I want to devote another 2 hours to a movie it feels like I've watched two or three times before.
07/31/09
07/31/09
08/01/09
I haven't seen the film, but from your description, it sounds as if those extra, almost repetitive, scenes you mention regarding the subplot are present to provide contextual counterpoints to the main events. I'm curious, did the couple's guilt feel weightier or lifted with each subsequent scene?
08/01/09
But really my complaints about this film were extremely minor. I thought a lot of the drawn-out, weird scenes worked well to convey a sense of unease, and I made that quite clear in my review.
08/01/09
07/31/09
Have you seen Big Man Japan? Can you write a review for it?
Here's an excerpt of Ebert's review:
Well, I guess this is the movie I’ve been asking for. Whenever I see a superhero epic, I’m always nagged by logical questions -- like, when the Incredible Hulk becomes enormous, how do his undershorts also expand? "Big Man Japan" answers that question with admirable clarity. Before the Big Man grows, workers winch an enormous pair of undershorts up on two poles, and he straddles the crotch. Then he expands to fill them. Had to be something like that.
07/31/09
08/01/09
Ebert's review from a few months ago is what turned me onto the film. You could see he wanted something like this from HANCOCK, but just didn't get it...
BMJ streeted this week and I caught it Tuesday. The first 30 minutes are so subtle that it's barely the comedy its billed as, but as it goes along it ventures off into some inspired everyday lunacy. It's like a mumblecore Kaiju...
08/01/09
Came out last week on DVD. It is quite amusing, but I wonder if a lot of the Japanese in-jokes will soar over people's heads.
The ending is amazing.
08/01/09
Does the country still harbor that much anti-American sentiment, or was that ending just the filmmaker's way paying thematic homage to the king of Kaiju, Gojira?? BMJ is a pretty scathing indictment of Japanese pop-culture and sheep-like mentality w/ regard to fads, not to mention the younger society's pack-like tendencies towards the weak (ie. bullying). Are American's supposed to be the Kaiju Bully Kings???
Didn't you just love Big Man's reaction to everything taking place?
07/31/09
07/31/09
07/31/09
08/01/09
07/31/09
Now how could you make a list like this, and leave out Rev. Nicholas D. Wolfwood from the Trigun series? Dude's weapon was a modified machine gun and rocket launcher-packing Cross. Now that's how you deliver the wrath of God unto the wicked.
07/31/09
07/31/09
07/31/09
Jesse Custer wasn't a bad guy, but he made the list, so I took it as "scary" didn't exactly mean "bad."
07/31/09
07/31/09
07/31/09
07/31/09
Of course, by now, everyone knows of the dubious histories of the various churches as Christianity evolved, and as society has become more civilized, atrocities in the name of God on the magnitude of The Inquisition or The Crusades are less common (although, if rumors are true, and Dubya really was talking to Baby Jesus, then we're in the midst of one now...) These characters automatically bring with them that history of menace and it provides writers with a way out of having to come up with a convincing backstory for a character. Why bother when you have 2000 years of history to provide all the menace you want???
Is it really that hard to write a priest as 99.999% of them actually are - good people who have decided to live a life of service?
That being said, there's one Evil Priest so badass that he could only be played by Robert Mitchum. As Harry Powell in the classic NIGHT OF THE HUNTER (a noir with serious horror overtones), Mitchum is so iconic that Spike Lee even lifted an entire speech of his for DO THE RIGHT THING in order to give Radio Raheem some character. Most of today's cinema audiences don't even realize the impact Powell has on today's cinema - even THE BLUE BROTHERS lifts ideas from this one.
07/31/09
In the recent io9 review of an anthology Joe edited, SON OF RETRO PULP TALES, it's mentioned that he revives a character from his zombie western classic, DEAD IN THE WEST - Reverend Jebediah Mercer. Mercer might actually be the most well-rounded of the "evil" priests that I've come across, and I use the word "evil" liberally here. He's certainly doing his best to serve the lord, but he's done some murdering in his past, which might explain why he's so good at killin' zombies. His current sins seem more prone to the "of the flesh" variety.
07/31/09
@Allen_Richards:
These Triviagasams rarely include things without pictures although Dead in the West was adapted into a series for Dark Horse Comics. This is the cover for the non-graphical novel.
07/31/09
Lansdale seemed to have an in at Dark Horse back in the mid-90's as they also released the 3-issue mini of BY BIZARRE HANDS (I never could figure out why Avatar adapted 2 of the same stories for their 6 issue BBH mini).
In case anyone is interested, you might still be able to find ATOMIC CHILI: THE ILLUSTRATED JOE R. LANSDALE which includes both mini's, among other things.
07/31/09
Now, as for things actually done on the behalf of God...that only counts if God actually asked them to.
08/01/09
As for Dubya, all those accounts of him talking to God and Jesus are just second-hand rumors, but they do make for a good story (ask Oliver Stone). ;)
07/31/09
Don Filippo Neri from State Buoni Se Potete. Not a very famous flick but we had a copy when I was growing up and man-o-man did it creep the shit out of me.
Father Hennessy from Constantine. He wasn't evil in any sense of the word but his creepy eyes and deathly pallor were enough to make me want him dead. He looks possessed.
Silas from The Da Vinci Code. I didn't like the movie but a demented albino, penitante who could probably put up a good fight with Bond? Yeah. Win.
Eli Sunday from There Will Be Blood. If you don't know, I can't explain.
Cardinal Richelieu from The Three Muskateers. He even has the awesome moustache to boot.
Cardinal Rourk from Sin City. He aids, abets and loves a creepy hobbit cannibal. Plus, heeee's sooo paaale.
Mola Ram? from The Temple of Doom. He...can...take...your...heart...
and
Harry Powell from The Night of the Hunter. He's sexy, evil and was the first dude to get tattoos on his fists.
Not all sci-fi, but whatever.
07/31/09
07/31/09
07/31/09
07/31/09
Not Fictional! Otherwise a perfect choice.
07/31/09
07/31/09
07/31/09
only the devout catholic children... the others can die painful deaths
08/02/09