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San Francisco, 10:24 PM
Fri Dec 18
29 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Piero Capurro Piero Capurro
    09:51 PM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    Very interesting and true indeed. Thanks for this.

    I'd like to add something though. Here in Latin America most people is colored and like to feel like they (we) have our own culture and history, that is different from North American (or white to that extend). I think any people in the world would feel proud for being original (as long as they give value to originality). However, we see a LOT of Hollywood and enjoy much listening to english music, eating fast-food and just any other thing that turns us more westerners than we'd like to think!

    That's why we've always tended to call this kind of cliché movie plots as "gringadas" (north americanisms). But if we think about it, not always have Americans been the dominant people... and further, not always have whites been the powerful dudes around the world (granted this is pretty much the situation since Cyrus the Great, 2500 years ago). But Human civilization is millennial. And this -fictional- romantic kind of plot dates back from biblical times (Gilgamesh, Joseph in Egypt, etc...)

    Maybe it's not only a whitey thing but a human one. Maybe it's the way how the powerful people of the moment -through literature- like to dream about themselves not imposing over small peoples just the easy way (with power), but instead earning their respect in a friendly and cooperative way. (Neither necessarily the messianic way.) But epic literature has always been a way to compensate what we think is a flaw in us.

    Just something to think about. With best regards.
     Reply
    Moff promoted this comment Piero Capurro was starred Piero Capurro was unstarred
    Image of joetato joetato
    09:48 PM

    In reply to Spoiler Filled Stills From Iron Man 2: What's Happening To Tony?
    I'm guessing the veins are either part of a dream sequence where Tony is freaking out about the Man/Machine identity, or nanobots in the bloodstream.
     Reply
    joetato was starred joetato was unstarred
    Image of Torley Torley
    09:39 PM

    In reply to Tron's Lightcycles: 1983 vs. 2010 Model Comparison
    I know that Daft Punk is doing the music is in the new Tron, but I hope for a Kavinsky remix. The zombie dude has a particular affinity for combining 80s-style new wave with vehicular techno.

    Envision this with lightcycles!
     Reply
    Torley was starred Torley was unstarred
    Image of phoenix phoenix
    09:14 PM

    In reply to Ten Science Stories That Changed Our Decade
    This is an excellent wrap-up of really interesting and important science-related topics in the past 10 years. They're all sufficiently big, and they're all sufficiently important to be included. Nice choices!
     Reply
    phoenix was starred phoenix was unstarred
    Image of TrueCrime TrueCrime
    08:37 PM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    Excellent analysis, Annalee, and the discussion in the comments has been mostly fascinating -- save for the utterly predictable accusations that you're the racist for having the temerity to discuss issues of race in popular entertainment. (You were right on the nose with that Hopkinson quote.)

    I'm actually much more interested in seeing the film now, to see how the analysis holds.

    Sadly, I don't see this type of story going away any time soon, especially in science fiction. So much of our beloved genre has race relations written so deeply into its DNA, that this "white man goes native, then leads the natives" trope is going to keep popping up, over and over again.
     Reply
    TrueCrime was starred TrueCrime was unstarred
    Image of firstanointed firstanointed
    07:17 PM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    "Think of it this way. Avatar is a fantasy about ceasing to be white, giving up the old human meatsack to join the blue people, but never losing white privilege. Jake never really knows what it's like to be a Na'vi because he always has the option to switch back into human mode."

    Well, yes , but if you remember the end of the film, no. I think all Sully ever truly wanted was his legs back. He didn't want his body to be a prison to him anymore and "becoming" one of The People was the cure he needed. Becoming one of The People was a perk he learned to appreciate.

    As a person of color, I have to say that I think white people make films like Avatar precisely because they know it's fantasy. They have had the chance many, many times in real life to be this hero to the ethnic world that is portrayed in films like Avatar or Dances With Wolves or The Last Samurai, but it's never happened because no matter how much white people play dress-up or learn the language, that very thing you mentioned, the desire to blend with the natives without losing the "white privilege" mentality permeates every action that is done. You cannot truly be a turnip if you are still an orange inside. Until white people can figure out how to "think black" or whatever you want to call it, we will get the Dances With Wolves fantasy on film because that's the only place where things can fall conveniently into place without requiring any dramatic change in mentality or politics. In Avatar, Netyri screams at Avatar!Sully that he will never be one of The People when his fellow jarheads bulldoze into town. All Sully has to do is a mime act of the Na'vi ancestors, ride of the giant orange pterodactyl thingies and all the Na'vi are in shock and awe. What could be easier? He has proven that he can be one of The People and still be lilly white inside. That's not always going to cut it in real life.
     Reply
    firstanointed was starred firstanointed was unstarred
    Image of AmishJohn AmishJohn
    07:14 PM

    In reply to Ten Science Stories That Changed Our Decade
    I'm waiting for the science breakthrough that automatically shoots these comment spammers in the neck.
     Reply
    AmishJohn was starred AmishJohn was unstarred
    Image of InsidiousTuna InsidiousTuna
    07:26 PM

    @AmishJohn: Hear, hear.
     Reply
    InsidiousTuna was starred InsidiousTuna was unstarred
    Image of The5thElephant The5thElephant
    09:05 PM

    @AmishJohn: I saw one that was approved the other day! I recoiled in horror.
     Reply
    The5thElephant was starred The5thElephant was unstarred
    Image of schrodingers-katana schrodingers-katana
    06:50 PM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    Seriously? They went with unobtainium? Wow.
     Reply
    schrodingers-katana was starred schrodingers-katana was unstarred
    Image of joetato joetato
    08:08 PM

    @schrodingers-katana: Upsidaisium, the anti-gravity mineral, was taken by Rocky and Bullwinkle.
     Reply
    joetato was starred joetato was unstarred
    Image of schrodingers-katana schrodingers-katana
    09:19 PM

    @joetato: Do you think they had extended meetings trying to decide between unobtainium and impossibilum? Because I do.
     Reply
    schrodingers-katana was starred schrodingers-katana was unstarred
    Image of smirkette smirkette
    06:40 PM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    Awesome analysis. I love serious writing about pop culture artifacts. If I was going to go back to being a high school teacher, I might steal this idea for teaching critical analysis composition.
     Reply
    Edited by smirkette at 12/18/09 6:41 PM smirkette was starred smirkette was unstarred
    Image of The Curse of Millhaven The Curse of Millhaven
    06:25 PM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    Does any nation or ethnicity make successful movies using the ideas that you call for? I mean, do the Chinese make movies about Africans from an African perspective? Are there similarly sensitive portrayals of the Central American experience being made in India? This is not a white-people-only issue. People in general just don't identify as strongly with people from other ethnic or cultural groups as they do with their own.

    Thinking about your article did cause me to change my mind about something, though: I now have a new appreciation for that massive potboiler, "Shogun." The character in that is forced to enter a strange society (and an uncolonized group as well), achieves some level of success as he adapts to their ways, and still doesn't wind up some kind of superhero within the new group. Basically, I am suggesting that James Clavell dealt with the issues you write about very nicely. I might have to read or watch it again.
     Reply
    The Curse of Millhaven was starred The Curse of Millhaven was unstarred
    Image of scrbl scrbl
    08:43 PM

    @The Curse of Millhaven: I don't remember Shogun very well at all. But the story you described sounds like it's both interesting and believable. I may have to visit the bookstore tomorrow.

    As for movies, there are a few filmmakers who handle unfamiliar cultures really well. Ang Lee comes to mind. Sophia Coppola too. John Sayles has made some great multicultural movies (Lone Star is one of my absolute favorites). They don't fall into a single demographic category, but they are out there. If only someone would give them half a billion dollars to make a blockbuster science fiction film.
     Reply
    The Curse of Millhaven promoted this comment scrbl was starred scrbl was unstarred
    Image of cletar cletar
    06:00 PM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    Avatar isn't about race, it's about imperialism, like Lawrence of Arabia.
    As a film, it's also as technically impressive as Lawrence of Arabia.
     Reply
    cletar was starred cletar was unstarred
    Image of riotnrrd riotnrrd
    06:16 PM

    @cletar: And (ahem) imperialism has nothing to do with concepts of race and racial superiority?
     Reply
    Darklighter promoted this comment riotnrrd was starred riotnrrd was unstarred
    Image of the memorexe the memorexe
    06:24 PM

    @cletar: But what part of imperialism is not about race?
     Reply
    cletar promoted this comment the memorexe was starred the memorexe was unstarred
    Image of cletar cletar
    06:45 PM

    @riotnrrd: I didn't say that. But it's not primarily about race, even though it's got other races in it, any more than it's primarily about gender, even though it's got men and women in it.
    My point is, it's as much a "race" movie as Lawrence of Arabia.
     Reply
    cletar was starred cletar was unstarred
    Image of cletar cletar
    06:46 PM

    @the memorexe: The two concepts aren't interchangeable, though. Would you call Dune a movie about race?
     Reply
    cletar was starred cletar was unstarred
    Image of the memorexe the memorexe
    07:13 PM

    @cletar: Dune is clearly Jihadist. The book that is.
     Reply
    Edited by the memorexe at 12/18/09 7:14 PM the memorexe was starred the memorexe was unstarred
    Image of Rocketknight Rocketknight
    05:37 PM

    In reply to Tron's Lightcycles: 1983 vs. 2010 Model Comparison
    Lightcycles were just about the only thing I liked about Tron. They're pretty much the only reason I'm excited about the new Tron, too.
     Reply
    Rocketknight was starred Rocketknight was unstarred
    Image of Lassus Lassus
    05:37 PM

    In reply to Worst Science Fiction TV Shows Of The Decade
    I keep hearing from people that Heroes is not exactly that terrible this season. I'm not sure who to believe, as I can see how the staff has been scarred by the previous badness.
     Reply
    Lassus was starred Lassus was unstarred
    Image of CSX321 CSX321
    07:02 PM

    @Lassus: It's not as bad as last season, but it's still bad. I don't know why, but I've watched every episode. I guess so I can feel better when it ends.
     Reply
    CSX321 was starred CSX321 was unstarred
    Image of OlavRokne OlavRokne
    05:26 PM

    In reply to Worst Science Fiction TV Shows Of The Decade
    Stargate SG-1 was clearly worse than most of these. And it gets extra awfulness points for lasting as long as it did, and spawning increasingly irrelevant spin-offs.

    I know that someone will flame me for this opinion. However, the stilted dialogue, totally silly aliens and wooden acting put SG-1 in my list of most shameful SF series.
     Reply
    OlavRokne was starred OlavRokne was unstarred
    Image of redqueenmeg redqueenmeg
    05:22 PM

    In reply to Worst Science Fiction TV Shows Of The Decade
    Enterprise? *ducks*

    Don't get me wrong, I love Trek, but I couldn't stick with this one. I remember being happy about my choice later on when I heard a radio ad for it that made it sound like they'd recycled a Dark Angel plot for an ep.

    Not that I watched Dark Angel, but I do seem to hear a lot of radio ads.
     Reply
    redqueenmeg was starred redqueenmeg was unstarred
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