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San Francisco, 5:26 AM
Sun Nov 22
10 posts in the last 24 hours
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07/25/09
Yes, Gwen got all weepy but I attributed it to Ianto's death and she'd just ran out of "We can do this. We always make it" powder. This was like the aria when the contralto sings that she knows she's "done for" and resigned to her fate.
In fact, the more I think about it, the more I feel this was a five part opera. (Der Ring des Torchwoodungen?) Each character had a thread to carry through the story, their leitmotif, broad themes track through the work (Corruption, Slaughter of the Innocents, you name it) and, like most tragic opera, it ended without a clear winner or loser. Is anyone really happy?
And most importantly: Did anyone remember to let Lois out of her cell???
07/25/09
07/25/09
Other than that, it was brilliant storytelling, and I was happy with the end result. Kudos all around.
07/25/09
Then the commercial breaks ruined the mood. Frobisher killed himself and his family ... and now we've got a happy, fun commercial for Lipton's Green Iced Tea. Great.
07/25/09
07/25/09
So here's a challenge commenters - don't just say "the pacing sucked". That's become one of the most stock, cliched phrases in the sci-fi fan vocabulary - so overused precisely because it's one of those terms that makes you seem notable and professional on a subject. Don't just use it "because". Use it right.
07/25/09
however, after all that, i don't really know where you can go with torchwood anymore. you've killed off or sent away or impregnated everyone. earth and britain have been through something so traumatizing that i don't know how you can go back to daily reality life as usual, or the cute and sexy old rift antics. i guess british television prefers burning out over fading away, and that's pretty commendable (i mean, really, american "Office," go away), but i think i'd have rather had a full series of fun episodes over this depressing-ass miniseries.
07/25/09
I can understand, and sympathize, with the choice he made for his daughters (even though it proved to be what TV Tropes calls a senseless sacrifice) and for himself. But it was NOT HIS PLACE to make the decision he did for his wife. I’m sure people will say he wanted to spare her the pain and shame of their children's fate and his complicity, but she should have been the one who decided whether or not she could live with it, not him.
*
I’m not convinced that Jack had to lose Ianto to make him willing to sacrifice Steven and leave Earth — Jack has always been the one who makes the choices that nobody else can accept. Personally, I think it would be more interesting if Ianto lived and Jack left because he couldn’t handle Ianto’s rejection...or his forgiveness.
07/26/09
We don't see Frobisher's decision, you're just making an assumption.
Perhaps he shot the girls and himself, and the shot after the delay was his wife picking up the gun and killing herself.
-Kle.
07/26/09
Besides, Frobisher killing his entire family is consistent with his modus operandi throughout the series.
07/27/09
Sure, it's possible it happened that way. Or not.
As for Anna not making any noise, nobody in the room made any noise. There was certainly time for a scream or two.
-Kle.
07/27/09
07/25/09
07/26/09
He's out there. Waiting to come back and kill Tennants Doctor.
07/25/09
If I may complain a bit more about the death of Ianto, it fits into what I just said. In an interview with afterelton that someone posted on yesterday's review, Davies said he felt that Ianto's death was a necessary motivation for Jack to go to the extreme lengths he did, which is a horrible cliche in and of itself but not the point. The point is, Jack would have done what he did regardless. Jack isn't like the woman in the prime minister's conference room; he doesn't think of saving his own hide first. He doesn't need the motivation of having someone he loves already dead to cause the death of another, he has the motivation of saving millions of kids all across the globe. At the end of the episode, when he's in the facility and the only available child is his own grandson, he isn't thinking, "This is for Ianto," he's thinking, "This is for every child on the planet."
07/25/09
07/26/09
07/26/09
07/25/09
I had assumed he was voicing the 456, but apparently it was someone else.
07/25/09
We ended up watching episodes 4 and 5 together with occasional pauses so he could ask questions about the characters and their back stories (he had never heard of Torchwood). This ended with a lively discussion about the characters' actions and his concession that "BBC does things better."
I had my complaints about the show, with usual RTD tropes (including Jesus metaphor and sucker-punch-in-the-gut ending) but that he managed to engage my sci-fi averse housemate is nothing short of a miracle.
07/25/09
Just plain terrible writing, by a writer who overestimates his abilities greatly. Not only has Torchwood been blown up, 60% of the staff been killed, and Captain Jack jetted off, it was all so contrived.
Davies made me dislike all of his characters in a story so full of plot holes and idiotic behavior by the main players that I'd rather Torchwood just died. There is no point to Torchwood if I don't like the characters, and Davies did a good job of making sure that was the case.
Davies killed the series for me. Congratulations.
07/25/09
Your telling me that a species that essentially OWNS the gravity well, can't make a chemical that the human body naturally makes?
C'mon! we haven't even left our own solar system but we can crank out synthetically every chemical that makes up the human body!
That was when the story line fell completely apart for me.
Your telling me that after that revelation nobody in the government would have gone.
"Chemicals you say? well, why don't you let us analyze the chemical composition of this chemical and we'll crank it out by the metric tonne for ya, how's that sound buddy!?"
"now there's just the matter of payment for this chemical..."
and with that we could have explored humanities roll as a drug dealer.
Basically RTD messed up with trying to make the 456 TOO repulsive. but it STILL could have all been saved.
All he had to do was change the word "Chemical" to "Energy" and I would have been fine with it.
that is why to me this revelation is right up there with Citizen's Kane's "rosebud" as a story plot hole.
07/25/09
There were so many plotholes in this, though. The assumption that everyone would just give up as easily as they do AND follow orders so unswervingly is a big one but that's one that plagues most of the modern Who stories -- which seems odd for a country whose Finest Hour involved never giving up in the face of insurmountable odds.
07/25/09
A human being can learn to drive a car and use plenty of other things without ever learning how the things they use are built and really work.
I saw the 456 as thugs looking for their next high leveling a gun at someone's head. Not as an entire alien race here to steal our children, just some of them.
Hell for all we know, a kid's hopeless and terror is what makes it feel so good. Kinda how Doctor Venture was only able to make a Holodeck by powering it with the soul of an unloved child.
07/25/09
+many to Charlie for "I'm tempted to take the cheap shot and say neither can we. But really, she was doing so well. She was winning me over, big time. And now, she's suddenly mopey and weak." With the running and hiding and whining and whining and whining.
Gwen has always been the worst character on the show, and now she's the only one left? Ianto gets needlessly fridged for a cheap thrill? Bah, I say, bah.
A Jack-Ianto-Tosh (+Lois) Torchwood would have rocked.
07/25/09
07/25/09
07/25/09
07/26/09
It makes such perfect sense of everything the 456 are doing that they're small-time junkie drug dealers who realized they had the opportunity to make a big score. They're pushy, greedy, needlessly cruel and abusive, and . . .
Strung out. They never explicitly say it, but the random violent outbursts become entirely understandable if the alien spokesperson is jonesing for a bigger fix than it can get and is lashing out in barely-controlled rage and frustration.
07/26/09
Let's say that the 456 don't have the technological capacity to make the chemicals.
WE DO! thus the whole plot comes tumbling down. We don't have to give them our kids we just have to manufacture the drug for them.
let's face it, if there's one thing the human race is good at right now, it's mass production.
07/26/09
Really fun, energetic, and exciting story arc -- best Torchwood yet -- but it doesn't bear up under any scrutiny which is a weakness. Sure, most fiction (esp TV and movies) has plot holes but this had far too many of them.
Such as the hilarious, I-want-to-be-the-Doctor-when-I-grow-up attempt to impress the aliens with Jack's really appalling track record of getting the job done. Oh, Ianto -- love *is* blind, isn't it?
07/25/09
That said - This series was awesome. I was really impressed with the story-telling overall, and especially the dark places they were willing to go that I think American network television would fear to tread.
I'll be picking up this dvd for sure.
07/25/09
07/25/09
I love it when a non-heroic character, who knows nothing of the big picture, decides to take a chance and do what he thinks is right.
07/26/09