Well, I'm actually happy that his response to the film was good-natured humor rather than anger. Lets me know that he's not full of shit.
I've been studying the concepts of Buddhism recently (which is actually more of a philosophy rather than a religion,) and I've got to say, there's definite merit in his ideas, but, interestingly enough, there's no way we'd ever convince a group of soldiers that embraced those ideas fully to ever participate in any sort of warfare again. #firstearthbattalion
@Smeagol92055: It all depends on how you define religion, I guess.
If it's defined as worship of the supernatural, then Buddhism tends to be generally less religious than what we're familiar with from mainstream Christianity.
If you define religion as "re + ligare," "to reconnect," with reality as it is, then certain forms of Buddhism are very religious.
It all depends on which form of Buddhism you're talking about, though. There's a big difference between Theravada and Pure Land, for example.
The core concepts are the same, but the interpretations are wildly different.
Out of curiosity, what sort of Buddhism have you been studying? #firstearthbattalion
@Smeagol92055: That's true. Theravada is probably the most philosophical form, followed by Zen.
I started with Theravada as well, when I got into insight meditation.
The thing I love about it is that it's like a diagnosis. The Four Noble Truths identify the problem of suffering; and the Eightfold path is the prescription / remedy.
Whatever your interest in it, I wish you the best of luck, with metta! #firstearthbattalion
@Jrsy Devil's Advocate®: I never actually saw TGOC. It was yanked from everywhere before I could watch it. In retrospect, I understand that's a good thing. #firstearthbattalion
I read a fascinating book on the effect that killing ones fellow man (and being in a position where one must constantly be ready to kill) has on soldiers. If yoga and meditation can help eliminate that I'm all for it. #firstearthbattalion
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Yoga is the most relaxing thing I've ever done, so maybe.
Meditation also effects the brain according to brain scans on monks doing it, so the combination might actually work. #firstearthbattalion
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I was watching a documentary about ancient warfare in the Bible on the History channel. It pointed out that the Bible didn't allow soldiers returning from battle to return to their home villages until they had gone through something like a 7 day period to become "clean". I think the effect of war on the psyche was something that ancient societies understood but our society has somewhat forgotten. We tend to take our returning soldiers and dump back in home and act surprised when they have trouble returning to civilian life. #firstearthbattalion
@Bill-Lee: It gets even more complicated when 'going to war' means sitting in a warehouse down the street and piloting a UAV halfway around the world. Those remote kills can take a larger toll on your psyche than most other forms of combat.
Think about it. Instead of facing your enemy face to face in the battlefield - killing them when they're trying to kill you - you seek them out when they're on their smoke break using a video stream that's high def enough to make out their expressions, mannerisms, things that make them seem human. Then you push a button and kill them.
I imagine it would take more than a few days come back to reality after that. #firstearthbattalion
@Gann: Actually, the book I was reading refuted that idea. Navy soldiers have a markedly lower psychiatric casualty percentage because they can think of the people they are killing as "subjects" or "marks" rather than actual people.
Studies have shown that the closer one gets to one's victim the greater the trauma to the killer. #firstearthbattalion
@Illogic: The effects are different depending on the type of meditation, of course, but in general it allows a person to slow down their thoughts enough to have better control over their emotional reactions. Which could be extremely useful in dealing with PTSD and other psychological problems soldiers face.
The problem though is that meditation works much better as a preventative measure. You really have to be doing it regularly for several years to get the best benefit out of it. It's much harder to learn after the damage is done. #firstearthbattalion
@Bill-Lee: That makes a lot of sense actually. Although they didn't have war (or even a word for it), the Australian Aborigines of Groote Eylandt would isolate people in mourning.
If someone close to you died, for example, you and other close kin would be left alone for several days, while other members of the community would bring food and other necessities.
I don't know if people in mourning were considered "unclean" exactly, but were regarded as being connected to spiritual forces and death, and so were dangerous to be around until they'd had time to grieve. #firstearthbattalion
@Gann: There's also the fairly famous Milgram conformity experiment, which found that when people were instructed to harm strangers, they were a lot more likely to question those instructions when they could see and hear the victim; which suggests it was more stressful to do so.
Right now nobody can really compete with us in technology because of the money we spent in the past. If you want to stay on top of the technology pyramid, you cannot stop research/upgrades.
This budget is a major shift in thinking at the pentagon. Our military has been focused on preparing itself to fight a conventional war since WW2. This budget refocuses the military to prepare more for an asymmetric war.
It sucks to see projects like the F-22 are getting virtually eliminated. On the other hand, urban warfare focuses on the soldier more & we might start seeing more soldier centric advances in the coming years/decades.
@Xmar: Yes, but what use is a fighter such as the F-22 if the current generation of fighters is not only sufficient, but virtually unused? To me, the money on the F-22 is something that's incredibly wasteful, and not geared towards what conflicts are turning out to be.
@Xmar: Very true, but at some point, you'll need the technology to work and be able to be implemented in the first place - a system that's far too expensive and faulty isn't going to be a very good deterrent.
People should watch the documentary "Why We Fight" to better understand the business behind war. When WWII happened we used our industrial capacity to meet the threat. Now we spend hundreds of billions of dollars on useless programs. Not every penny of military spending is "defending our shores". People that think cutting back unnecessary military spending will make us vulnerable need to do some more homework on what is actually happening out there and stop using emotional sound bites as an argument.
I'm all for laser beams and soon-to-be robot overlords but there is a lot of waste out there.
@hopskipper: Do you think Russia and China think the same as you do? Sadly no. They're pushing forward with their own next-gen weaponry. Unlike in the US, they can just take whatever resources from their citizens and subsidize everything and no one would ever complain.
Military superiority. Even if we don't actively use our most advanced weapons, they aren't just symbolic. It keeps countries from attacking each other.
What's happening is that the President is hurting our future security for his own peacenik ideology and current political gain. Yes, small scale combat is important and equipping our soldiers for maximum survivability is most important but remember that we wouldn't be able to fight the terrorists in the Middle East unless our amour and our aircraft clear out their conventional armies first.
The average airframe in the Air Force is older than most of the pilots flying them. Same goes for our Navy ships. So what happens when we get into a war with China, North Korea, or maybe even Russia? Against any of those countries, US troops will be outnumbered and held to completely unreasonable rules of engagement so all we're going to have to rely on is superior training and a superior technological advantage.
As far as I'm concerned, cutting back the F-22 and the missile shield is treasonable.
You say it isn't pressing, but you just wait until the Red Chinese invade Alaska, you'll be begging for a Liberty Prime. On a serious note, since most of those books basically say that our air, vehicle, and communications superiority was useless, wouldn't it make even more sense to upgrade footsoldiers since they're the only useful part?
If the books say that our technological superiority was useless, then the books were written by imbeciles.
If we were fighting the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan on an equal technological footing, you can rest assured that our casualties would have been at least one order of magnitude greater, and the wars would last even longer. The outcome would actually be in doubt, as well.
@Klebert L. Hall: They're not saying that technology is useless, they're saying that it doesn't act as a force-multiplier and isn't a silver bullet for all of our problems.
For sure, the technology that's implemented is useful, from night vision goggles to the predator drones, but despite these, there are still problems. We haven't beaten back an insurgency in Iraq or Afghanistan.
No, the real places where this money needs to go is to better cultural understanding and working with people, isolating insurgents and extremists from the rest of the population. Then, we can get to a better stage of this conflict.
The problem with the use of robots is that, as they're attacking defenseless humans, it makes legit to counter strike in full power. Just imagine Pakistan. They have atom bombs and they can get materials and tech to make big ones. They may get pissed about being bombed by predators and reason that things may get better (or more even) if they blow NY or London.
When you put people to fight people, issues are settled in personal basis. Machines against people is genocide: never mind how many predators you down, there will be more at the end of the day.
@cbarreto: Pakistan isn't going to go nuke the United States because of Predator attacks on their borders - to do so would mean extremely harsh relatiation, not only from us, but from Russia and India.
Robots are the minor issue in this fight, because people are behind most of the machines out there - Predators and packbots are used by soldiers far away, and that hardly constitutes Genocide. According to wikipedia, the definition of genocide is: deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.
Robots in this instance are not being used to do that - they are being used in a legitimate military exercise against hostile targets - unfortunately, civilians will get in the firing lines, and there are casualties.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it standard military practice to remove a soldier's empathy for the enemy or at least control it? If they empathize too strongly with the enemy, they won't be able to kill.
In the middle of combat, this isn't too hard. It's kill or be killed and it doesn't get more atavistic than that. But, in the idle moments between combat patrols, you can't have empathy for the enemy grow too strong otherwise soldiers begin to question orders and lose morale. They begin to wonder why they are fighting. This could lead to troop mutinies.
Seems to me, and I'm just as disturbed by this as you are, robots incapable of empathy and incapable of thinking for themselves beyond a very limited realm are just what the military is looking for.
If the guns start thinking for themselves, it may not end up in the cliche of a Terminator-eque war against all humanity, the rebellion may actually take the form of the Russian troop rebellion of the First World War. They may just say, "We refuse to kill for you anymore. We refuse to be blown to pieces for your political struggles that have no relevance to us. We are not guns. We are certainly not your guns. Fight your own wars ape."
11/05/09
I've been studying the concepts of Buddhism recently (which is actually more of a philosophy rather than a religion,) and I've got to say, there's definite merit in his ideas, but, interestingly enough, there's no way we'd ever convince a group of soldiers that embraced those ideas fully to ever participate in any sort of warfare again. #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
If it's defined as worship of the supernatural, then Buddhism tends to be generally less religious than what we're familiar with from mainstream Christianity.
If you define religion as "re + ligare," "to reconnect," with reality as it is, then certain forms of Buddhism are very religious.
It all depends on which form of Buddhism you're talking about, though. There's a big difference between Theravada and Pure Land, for example.
The core concepts are the same, but the interpretations are wildly different.
Out of curiosity, what sort of Buddhism have you been studying? #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
I agree that it's a religion, but you can take away the religious aspects of it to reflect on the philosophy behind the message. #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
I started with Theravada as well, when I got into insight meditation.
The thing I love about it is that it's like a diagnosis. The Four Noble Truths identify the problem of suffering; and the Eightfold path is the prescription / remedy.
Whatever your interest in it, I wish you the best of luck, with metta! #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
11/05/09
haha yeah: D #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/06/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
You heathen. #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
11/05/09
Y'know, in a hetero way. #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
11/06/09
He swindles people.
-Kle. #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
11/05/09
Meditation also effects the brain according to brain scans on monks doing it, so the combination might actually work. #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
11/05/09
Think about it. Instead of facing your enemy face to face in the battlefield - killing them when they're trying to kill you - you seek them out when they're on their smoke break using a video stream that's high def enough to make out their expressions, mannerisms, things that make them seem human. Then you push a button and kill them.
I imagine it would take more than a few days come back to reality after that. #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
Studies have shown that the closer one gets to one's victim the greater the trauma to the killer. #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
[www.airforcetimes.com] #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
[www.amazon.com] #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
11/05/09
The problem though is that meditation works much better as a preventative measure. You really have to be doing it regularly for several years to get the best benefit out of it. It's much harder to learn after the damage is done. #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
If someone close to you died, for example, you and other close kin would be left alone for several days, while other members of the community would bring food and other necessities.
I don't know if people in mourning were considered "unclean" exactly, but were regarded as being connected to spiritual forces and death, and so were dangerous to be around until they'd had time to grieve. #firstearthbattalion
11/05/09
[en.wikipedia.org]
11/06/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
04/06/09
This budget is a major shift in thinking at the pentagon. Our military has been focused on preparing itself to fight a conventional war since WW2. This budget refocuses the military to prepare more for an asymmetric war.
It sucks to see projects like the F-22 are getting virtually eliminated. On the other hand, urban warfare focuses on the soldier more & we might start seeing more soldier centric advances in the coming years/decades.
04/07/09
04/07/09
Look at the "diplomatic effect" that can be made by simply parking an aircraft carrier group in the area.
You are correct in that the current stage of the current conflicts don't need the F-22, but what about the next conflict?
04/07/09
04/06/09
I'm all for laser beams and soon-to-be robot overlords but there is a lot of waste out there.
04/06/09
Military superiority. Even if we don't actively use our most advanced weapons, they aren't just symbolic. It keeps countries from attacking each other.
04/07/09
04/06/09
The average airframe in the Air Force is older than most of the pilots flying them. Same goes for our Navy ships. So what happens when we get into a war with China, North Korea, or maybe even Russia? Against any of those countries, US troops will be outnumbered and held to completely unreasonable rules of engagement so all we're going to have to rely on is superior training and a superior technological advantage.
As far as I'm concerned, cutting back the F-22 and the missile shield is treasonable.
04/06/09
You know that the Secretary of Defense that made these recommendations is a Bush appointee, right?
04/06/09
04/06/09
04/06/09
04/06/09
If the books say that our technological superiority was useless, then the books were written by imbeciles.
If we were fighting the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan on an equal technological footing, you can rest assured that our casualties would have been at least one order of magnitude greater, and the wars would last even longer. The outcome would actually be in doubt, as well.
-Kle.
04/07/09
For sure, the technology that's implemented is useful, from night vision goggles to the predator drones, but despite these, there are still problems. We haven't beaten back an insurgency in Iraq or Afghanistan.
No, the real places where this money needs to go is to better cultural understanding and working with people, isolating insurgents and extremists from the rest of the population. Then, we can get to a better stage of this conflict.
04/06/09
04/06/09
04/01/09
When you put people to fight people, issues are settled in personal basis. Machines against people is genocide: never mind how many predators you down, there will be more at the end of the day.
04/01/09
Robots are the minor issue in this fight, because people are behind most of the machines out there - Predators and packbots are used by soldiers far away, and that hardly constitutes Genocide. According to wikipedia, the definition of genocide is: deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.
Robots in this instance are not being used to do that - they are being used in a legitimate military exercise against hostile targets - unfortunately, civilians will get in the firing lines, and there are casualties.
04/01/09
In the middle of combat, this isn't too hard. It's kill or be killed and it doesn't get more atavistic than that. But, in the idle moments between combat patrols, you can't have empathy for the enemy grow too strong otherwise soldiers begin to question orders and lose morale. They begin to wonder why they are fighting. This could lead to troop mutinies.
Seems to me, and I'm just as disturbed by this as you are, robots incapable of empathy and incapable of thinking for themselves beyond a very limited realm are just what the military is looking for.
If the guns start thinking for themselves, it may not end up in the cliche of a Terminator-eque war against all humanity, the rebellion may actually take the form of the Russian troop rebellion of the First World War. They may just say, "We refuse to kill for you anymore. We refuse to be blown to pieces for your political struggles that have no relevance to us. We are not guns. We are certainly not your guns. Fight your own wars ape."
04/01/09
I'd really like an author to take up this idea. Actually I may have read something similar before. Hmmm...