For those of you living in Europe and ordering books from Amazon.uk, beware of the fact that they change the list price of books when you add them to your basket.
I was about to order a book when I noticed that the price listed, £19.09, mysteriously changed to £21.74 when I added the book to my basket. And this is before any shipping, handling, or tax added to the purchase.
Interestingly enough, the same does not happen when ordering from their US store.
@Roklimber: Never mind... my mistake, though an honest one based on some confusing information from their check-out page.
It turns out that the extra amount is the VAT (Value Added Tax), though they don't say or show it explicitly, unless you click on some extra buttons.
The listed price already contains the VAT for the UK, so when I add a book to my basket, they subtract the UK VAT and add the Danish VAT, which I discovered is an astonishing 25%.
I gotta move out of here... at the rate I'm buying books, I'll be broke in no time.
@Roklimber: Well uk vat (17.5%) usually isn't specifically mentioned, unlike the way I believe sales tax is done in America (I know it'll be different from state to state). I've been caught out once or twice browsing sites like aria where the +vat price is only prominatelly displayed if you turn it on (but will be added at checkout) because to be honest I(/we?) just take it for granted.
@Bobbobins: Yes, having lived in the US for nearly 20 years, I got used to sales taxes being shown explicitly.
Yes, 25% VAT in Denmark.
I just bought 3 books from amazon.uk which, in the US, would have cost me a total of $80, give or take, plus sales tax (in CA, 8.25%, as I recall), and I'd be eligible for free shipping.
Instead, I'm paying, in dollars, some $130, because of VAT, shipping and handling.
@Bobbobins: Sales tax is often different not only by state, but by city/county. LA is 9.75%, 'next door' in Ventura county it is only 8.75%. What does the VAT effect? I can't even think about 17.5% or 25%.
@Ruthless if you let me: Well I'm massively far from an expert and I think its a little complicated because of many years of different laws, but I think most things have vat apart from these I just found on a government website:
"Reduced rate: In some cases, for example children's car seats and domestic fuel or power, you pay a reduced rate of 5 per cent.
Zero rate: There are some goods on which you don't pay any VAT, like: food, books, newspapers and magazines, young children's clothing and footwear + special exempt items - for example equipment for disabled people"
That's not completely true though as I'm sure there is vat on some food (plus of course duty on booze and tobacco, etc) and it seems odd they claim there's no vat on books. Hmmm...
@Bobbobins: That sounds really complicated, or at least more complicated than needed. At least it's nice that breaks are given on a lot of kid's items.
Here, sales tax only does not apply to food that you will make yourself, like from a grocery store. Restaurant food is taxed. Household goods that aren't food are still taxed.
I also found out this weekend I'll probably owe ~$2300 on my yearly fed/state taxes.
@Roklimber, Ruthless and all: Fascinating discussion. I've never heard of VAT. Is that a European version of the sales tax we pay in the U.S.? Montana and four other states still don't have sales tax. When we moved to New Mexico from Montana I had to get used to it all over again but we don't have a tax on food if I remember correctly. Big stink this fall because the legislature was considering a sales tax on tortillas. OMG. NOT the thing to do here. But when I order on line I never pay sales tax unless it's a business located here in the state.
@mamadragon49: Value Added Tax (no I have no idea why its called that, probly seemed like a good idea at the time), currently 17.5% in the uk and charged on most things apart from most food, kids clothes and printed material. I think. (its more complicated but also dull :) )
Its basically invisible to most consumers most of the time though so unless you're a business you don't give it much thought (well its not like you can avoid it) and for all intents and purposes forget about it.
We don't really get to vote on individual taxes as I believe some of you do, but tax on food is a no-no for governments cause it effects those on lower incomes more and its not as if they have any option about buying food. They'd probly loose a lot of votes and get bad pr.
@mamadragon49: I believe it is similar to the sales tax we have in the US (or most states.) India, and Indonesia, & perhaps Hong Kong, have a VAT as well that applies to international sales, if I remember correctly from my freight forwarding days. I am sure other countries have a VAT, though I have no first hand knowledge of it. International shipping laws tend to warp prices like crazy.
Same deal here in CA regarding online ordering & tax. I doubt that any state could get away with taxing a food staple. How could they even think that was going to be OK with people? Some sort of passive-aggressive ant-immigrant motion? I wonder if any place has taxes on food?
@Ruthless if you let me: No, not anti-immigrant. It's just that if you live in New Mexico, you eat tortillas regardless of your ethnic background. It's a staple.
But then the legislature was just going to tax tortillas that weren't made in New Mexico. It really got quite silly.
@Bobbobins: I know that in Montana, the state legislature cannot simply impose a sales tax. It would have to be passed in a referendum and so far Montanan's have consistently voted the idea down. They tried it one time when I was still living there. People weren't buying it.
@mamadragon49: Yeah I would imagine when people have the right to directly vote on taxes they will often vote against if they don't think they can afford it or don't see what's in it for them, even if (arguably) it would be in everyones interest. Sometimes. Maybe.
Unless I'm really blanking on a major part of our law the uk has no provision for binding referendum or national ballots on individual laws like, well its a state by state thing isn't it? Looked it up and vat was passed in 1974, when I believe we where in bad shape (I was V.young, just what I've heard. I'd guess Labour where in) so it probly passed with no real problems, plus it came in at a much lower level to begin with and has slowly nudged up over time.
Basically we as a country are a bit skint and there's probably an election coming up in a few months so we're stuck choosing between Labour, who've been in for a while and people are sick of and the Conservatives, who many people still dislike from last time they where in power, and no matter which we vote for they will probly do basically the same things and we'll be stuck with them for three or four years. A lot of people are just sick of politicians really.
None of this explains why Rocklimber's books are so expensive though. It might be an EU thing or a Danish thing. I could be very easily very wrong but I don't think its amazon or directly uk tax's fault though, unless there are crossed wires somewhere.
For those of you living in Europe and ordering books from Amazon.uk, beware of the fact that they change the list price of books when you add them to your basket.
I was about to order a book when I noticed that the price listed, £19.09, mysteriously changed to £21.74 when I added the book to my basket. And this is before any shipping, handling, or tax added to the purchase.
Interestingly enough, the same does not happen when ordering from their US store.
Has anyone noticed this before?
#observationdeck
(Edit comment)@Roklimber: Never mind... my mistake, though an honest one based on some confusing information from their check-out page.
It turns out that the extra amount is the VAT (Value Added Tax), though they don't say or show it explicitly, unless you click on some extra buttons.
The listed price already contains the VAT for the UK, so when I add a book to my basket, they subtract the UK VAT and add the Danish VAT, which I discovered is an astonishing 25%.
I gotta move out of here... at the rate I'm buying books, I'll be broke in no time.
#observationdeck
(Edit comment)@Roklimber: Well uk vat (17.5%) usually isn't specifically mentioned, unlike the way I believe sales tax is done in America (I know it'll be different from state to state). I've been caught out once or twice browsing sites like aria where the +vat price is only prominatelly displayed if you turn it on (but will be added at checkout) because to be honest I(/we?) just take it for granted.
Still 25%? That's quite bad.
#observationdeck
(Edit comment)@Bobbobins: Yes, having lived in the US for nearly 20 years, I got used to sales taxes being shown explicitly.
Yes, 25% VAT in Denmark.
I just bought 3 books from amazon.uk which, in the US, would have cost me a total of $80, give or take, plus sales tax (in CA, 8.25%, as I recall), and I'd be eligible for free shipping.
Instead, I'm paying, in dollars, some $130, because of VAT, shipping and handling.
#tips
(Edit comment)@Roklimber: Don't knock Amazon.uk.
#observationdeck
(Edit comment)@AlexKap: Knock?
#tips
(Edit comment)@Roklimber: I don't know, it's always worked fine for me, but then again I'm local, so maybe it's different.
#tips
(Edit comment)@AlexKap:
I never said it doesn't work, only that apparently there was a discrepancy.
Did you read my second post, where I explained what is going on?
#tips
(Edit comment)@Roklimber: Sorry, I must have skipped it somehow.
#tips
(Edit comment)@Bobbobins: Sales tax is often different not only by state, but by city/county. LA is 9.75%, 'next door' in Ventura county it is only 8.75%. What does the VAT effect? I can't even think about 17.5% or 25%.
#observationdeck
(Edit comment)@Ruthless if you let me: Well I'm massively far from an expert and I think its a little complicated because of many years of different laws, but I think most things have vat apart from these I just found on a government website:
"Reduced rate:
In some cases, for example children's car seats and domestic fuel or power, you pay a reduced rate of 5 per cent.
Zero rate:
There are some goods on which you don't pay any VAT, like:
food, books, newspapers and magazines, young children's clothing and footwear + special exempt items - for example equipment for disabled people"
That's not completely true though as I'm sure there is vat on some food (plus of course duty on booze and tobacco, etc) and it seems odd they claim there's no vat on books. Hmmm...
Amazon Uk vat rates
This seems odd. there's a fair chance I'm missing somthing. Hhhmmm....
Then again I have no clue about Dutch? (is it dutch?) law which could well be completely different.
#tips
(Edit comment)@Bobbobins: That sounds really complicated, or at least more complicated than needed. At least it's nice that breaks are given on a lot of kid's items.
Here, sales tax only does not apply to food that you will make yourself, like from a grocery store. Restaurant food is taxed. Household goods that aren't food are still taxed.
I also found out this weekend I'll probably owe ~$2300 on my yearly fed/state taxes.
#tips
(Edit comment)#taxessuck
@Roklimber, Ruthless and all: Fascinating discussion. I've never heard of VAT. Is that a European version of the sales tax we pay in the U.S.? Montana and four other states still don't have sales tax. When we moved to New Mexico from Montana I had to get used to it all over again but we don't have a tax on food if I remember correctly. Big stink this fall because the legislature was considering a sales tax on tortillas. OMG. NOT the thing to do here. But when I order on line I never pay sales tax unless it's a business located here in the state.
#tips
(Edit comment)@mamadragon49: Value Added Tax (no I have no idea why its called that, probly seemed like a good idea at the time), currently 17.5% in the uk and charged on most things apart from most food, kids clothes and printed material. I think. (its more complicated but also dull :) )
Its basically invisible to most consumers most of the time though so unless you're a business you don't give it much thought (well its not like you can avoid it) and for all intents and purposes forget about it.
We don't really get to vote on individual taxes as I believe some of you do, but tax on food is a no-no for governments cause it effects those on lower incomes more and its not as if they have any option about buying food. They'd probly loose a lot of votes and get bad pr.
#observationdeck
(Edit comment)@mamadragon49: I believe it is similar to the sales tax we have in the US (or most states.) India, and Indonesia, & perhaps Hong Kong, have a VAT as well that applies to international sales, if I remember correctly from my freight forwarding days. I am sure other countries have a VAT, though I have no first hand knowledge of it. International shipping laws tend to warp prices like crazy.
Same deal here in CA regarding online ordering & tax. I doubt that any state could get away with taxing a food staple. How could they even think that was going to be OK with people? Some sort of passive-aggressive ant-immigrant motion? I wonder if any place has taxes on food?
#tips
(Edit comment)@Ruthless if you let me: No, not anti-immigrant. It's just that if you live in New Mexico, you eat tortillas regardless of your ethnic background. It's a staple.
But then the legislature was just going to tax tortillas that weren't made in New Mexico. It really got quite silly.
#tips
(Edit comment)@Bobbobins: I know that in Montana, the state legislature cannot simply impose a sales tax. It would have to be passed in a referendum and so far Montanan's have consistently voted the idea down. They tried it one time when I was still living there. People weren't buying it.
#tips
(Edit comment)@mamadragon49: Yeah I would imagine when people have the right to directly vote on taxes they will often vote against if they don't think they can afford it or don't see what's in it for them, even if (arguably) it would be in everyones interest. Sometimes. Maybe.
Unless I'm really blanking on a major part of our law the uk has no provision for binding referendum or national ballots on individual laws like, well its a state by state thing isn't it? Looked it up and vat was passed in 1974, when I believe we where in bad shape (I was V.young, just what I've heard. I'd guess Labour where in) so it probly passed with no real problems, plus it came in at a much lower level to begin with and has slowly nudged up over time.
Basically we as a country are a bit skint and there's probably an election coming up in a few months so we're stuck choosing between Labour, who've been in for a while and people are sick of and the Conservatives, who many people still dislike from last time they where in power, and no matter which we vote for they will probly do basically the same things and we'll be stuck with them for three or four years. A lot of people are just sick of politicians really.
None of this explains why Rocklimber's books are so expensive though. It might be an EU thing or a Danish thing. I could be very easily very wrong but I don't think its amazon or directly uk tax's fault though, unless there are crossed wires somewhere.
#tips
(Edit comment)User action
Thread action