braak

c0dek

Defendant

or maybe it's the result of hillary and obama "if they mated"?

if nothing else, the imagery is certainly remiscent of 9/11...

jinchoung

ctac911

It *isn't* entirely one-sided. My point was just that I think that anything that helps push the current 'red/blue' division and mutual hatred meme is a bad thing. The nation was set up to be run on the principles of compromise and consensus, not 'my way or the highway'. Holding everybody with different political opinions in utter contempt does not help improve our lives.

For the record; I dislike both parties, think the party system is obsolete and parasitic, and my political philosophies are universally unpopular.

-Kle.

Klebert L. Hall

-emory-

-emory-

It's also worthy to remember this is all of...what, week 2? 3? These things take time. And yes, I'm somewhat disappointed in some of the recent stuff, but the early stuff was so good that I'm willing to stick it out for a while longer.

Slatz_Grobnik

Rational people had high hopes for the high rise urban housing projects. Rational people had high hopes for the regional effects of toppling Saddam.

The saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions," applies here. It is horrific to consider the possibility that your own good intentions actually are a grave miscalculation. It is not a possibility that many people will seriously admit to, but we constantly accuse each other of just that.

Science Fiction is a form that lends itself to the examination of these horrible possibilities in a setting that is (should be) just far enough removed from reality to avoid instantly creating a defensive shutdown response. Really great scifi can examine the fears of both sides of an argument. I am not convinced that one facet of our political spectrum is over- or under-served in this respect.

AtomHammer

Anyway, I found myself agreeing whole-heartedly with this part:

I think there's a large problem with io9 in that it needs some editorial help. [..] io9 is posting at a breakneck pace--half as many posts would be just fine.

I could do with less posts. And those self-referential "week in review" posts that just link to other io9 posts made this week just make it all feel like it's all about filler.

SoulCarnival

@ARP--Thanks for the insight about the nature of sci-fi. After 25 years of reading sci-fi, I had no idea that sci-fi was "liberal". I had no idea politics mattered. Your exercise in assuming what I was thinking and then using it as a platform to state your personal belief about liberalism and sci-fi was a true slice o' heaven. Just try to be a little less arrogant and condescending. PS--Does it matter that "don't let the door hit you in the as* on the way out" makes you sound unkind?

The problem I had with the article was that it was more than a little incoherent, which might explain the trouble people have had understanding the points Geoff was making. Geoff actually made some good points ("Nightmares are the realm of unexamined scapegoats" is something ARP should keep in mind.) But stilll, it was hard to see the point he was making. I think there's a large problem with io9 in that it needs some editorial help. The article needed some work. A lot of io9's stuff needs work. Example: a recent posting about "Lives of the Monster Dogs" completely got the point of the novel wrong. (See my posted correction there.) io9 is posting at a breakneck pace--half as many posts would be just fine. The reason why I didn't feel like expounding on why I was dropping io9 from my RSS feed is that I felt any such comments would be lost in the sea of posts. And yes, I do think there's quite a bit of liberal bias here, but I find it as irritating as I would if there was just as much bias coming from the right.

bigfootsf

There is however a flaw in your reasoning. Red Staters already live in a sci-fi world. I give you: Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction. Anyone? Anyone?

light_bubble

As for the younger generation, the sad truth is they don't read science fiction except for media tie-ins. They've all gone over to fantasy. Authors are defecting en masse to more popular genres -- fantasy, mysteries, historical fiction, even romances.

SeanOHara

As far as your suggestion for a RW horror movie, I can think of a few "minorities" that I would vote for ahead of the "Christian" who in my opinion fits the category of liberal better than he does conservative.

Back on topic, I still say that anything that portrays a government or monopolized company, taking away my freedoms, is to me a red-stater's idea of horror. It's just hard to portray in the classic horror film way. Although, "two by two, hands of blue" was pretty effective.

For the usual horror topics, I generally find them either too gruesome to stomach watching, too silly to be effective, or too simple to overcome. I believe in adapt and overcome, and it plays into what type of entertainment I enjoy.

aelhues

Eac_o_System

And that's what the article really falls down on. Trashy sci-fi is going to have plain meanings because it will frequently be little more than transparent allegory for something modern. Good sci-fi is always about hopes and/or fears, and as it's generally looking forward, it can accept that projection by either side of the political spectrum.

Slatz_Grobnik

Annalee Newitz

It's bad enough when we expect feminist commenters at Jezebel to not take things too seriously--but you're actually suggesting that scifi nerds not take their cultural cornerstones too seriously?

Really?

THIS IS MY GOD-DAMN LIFE, GEOFF MANAUGH!

braak

tetracycloide

I'm sure that having an African-American and a woman as the frontrunners on the other side is a horror movie for them, too.

mik3cap

But what is being completely overlooked here is that the entire premise of this post is that Blue State fears - i.e. military dictatorships, environmental disasters, robo-governmental conspiracies, etc. etc., all of which are mentioned in this exact same post but which commenters like unimodeler are conveniently not referring to - are tired and fairly ridiculous. In other words, this thing is making fun of Blue State horror as much as it is making fun of whatever Red States are supposed to be afraid of. Either way, this is a totally legitimate conversation to have. What are people scared of? Can we make fun of it?

The fact that this post also portrays Blue State audiences - whatever these phrases even mean - as being terrified of utterly ridiculous and embarrassing things, like artificial sweeteners and the death of tree frogs, is being ignored. Is that not mockery, as well? Are you sure I'm making fun of you?

So, yes, I could and should have written this differently - apologies. But, like I say, the underlying premise of this entire thing is that Blue State fears - whatever that even means: it's a phrase as empty as saying "Red State fears" - are no longer interesting and so let's look at some other way to be scary... Who cares about enviro-monsters and conspiracy theories? Enough already.

Even better: it's a joke.

Geoff Manaugh

tetracycloide

Red State Horror "Hammerfall' Niven and Pournelle

The way i see it is that Right wing SF, all problems are solved with guns, Left wing SF, the problems might not even be solved at all.

wishnevsky

That said, i get the feeling that the generation of SF&F writers breaking in now are socially much more liberal than even thier hippie parents. Sexual and animal rights are big issues, as far as i can tell.

wishnevsky

Unimodeler

aelhues

Unimodeler

Well, sure - points taken. But making fun of the absurd, self-imposed political divisions that exist in this country by mocking the fears of both sides doesn't really strike me as that bad a thing. Then again, of course I would think that because I'm the person who wrote the post.

Joking about the stereotypes that scare people the most seems totally fair game to me. And I wouldn't be so sure that this post only mocks one side of the aisle.

Geoff Manaugh

aelhues

Does it mean conservatives who are economically conservative, those socially conservative, the religious right? Is it referring to those that hold fast to traditional values or those who are individualists who do not want government intervention? Does it refer to laissez-faire capitalists?

Even accepting some wild stereotype of a social conservative who hates the new, hates the different, hates the liberal, are we really looking at a void? SciFi is the genre that is the high priest of alien stories. I think you could say any story of xenophobia, where we prevail against aliens who want to harm us and change our way of life would satisfy a "red state horror" movie. Do you really have to bring in laughable ideas of very literal demonizations of liberal stereotypes?

Spiral

Unimodeler

Ok so this isn't working out so well. I give up, we're not all that different.

aelhues

aerrin99

Crash Launching

SeanOHara

If we don't like the 'ever-widening political divide', perhaps we should work towards compromise and consensus, instead of driving the divided wider through mockery?

I mean, it's just an idea...
-Kle.

Klebert L. Hall

She/he probably had bad run-in with Ripley.

Aside from that I'm struggling to put my SF hipster finger on exactly what it is that makes this blog so uniquely tailored to the tastes of the Valencia Street crowd.

blueharv

I am about as...hmm...well...Libertarian/conservative as they come. I can't comprehend why Liberals jump everytime some environmentalist or corporate conspiritorialist (yeah I made that up) says boo! I can't comprehend why they seem to like giving more and more of our hard earned cash to an extremely inefficient government to redistribute as they see fit.

I completely understand Mal's desire to live outside of the liberal utopia, to earn his own way, and live free.

aelhues

1) It tends to be more creative and imaginative. Not that all creative people are liberals, but creative professions and topics tend to attract more liberals.

2) Sci-Fi is often an "warning" about what the future will hold if we stay on the current course. While high taxes, universal health care, and lots of openly gay people may sound post-apocolyptic to you, its not that interesting for sci-fi. Now, endless war, tourture, secret prisons, ice ages, global warming, wiretapping, theocracies, and similar topics are bit more sexy to write sci-fi. And lets face it, they're all being caused by Republicans.

3)Sci-Fi is often morally ambiguous and often challenges beliefs. Red staters may tolerate it, but don't like to engage in the practice as much.

ARP

averyspecialjoedonbakerxmas

SeanOHara

bigfootsf

I believe the "Left Behind" series tries to portray this sort of world.

Also, every hero anti-terrorism movie with a rogue cop/agent and a corrupt/liberal politician who wants to "negotiate" or "understand" already portrays part of the story.

There are real world examples where "liberalism" has taken over and you can see the utter destruction and chaos- Amsterdam, France, and Canada. All these states have many of the attributes that red staters fear most, legalization of drugs, more lax attitudes about sex and sexuality, fairly robust gay rights, socialized health care, free education, high taxes, clear separation of church and state, tolerance towards immigrants (which is less so recently), etc. So, I'm not sure how great a film it would be to show some people just "living" in Amsterdam.

ARP

They like it, just like 14 year old creeps like Marilyn Manson..

wishnevsky

Ed Grabianowski

Crash Launching

markus0i

EncephelanetRepairHelperGuy