Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science - io9 Comments

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Sleepyhead — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:16:09 PST

Admit it to yourself... you are, as I am, surprised that we've made it through this many comments without someone accidentally calling him "Josh". I see that shit all the time even among self-professed fans.

Sleepyhead

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

cleveland — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:33:21 PST

I really liked Winona Ryder in that role as the one ethical though synthetical person next to Ripley in Alien:resurrection and I love the Danger storyline in astonishing X-Men. I'm interested in drama and deep thought and am bored by endless mindless fighting sequences. This is simply my point of view and I'm also sad if so many X-fans don't get it what extremely good stuff they were offered by Joss Whedon.

cleveland

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

idoru45 — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:14:49 PST

@SuzieTampa: Um, OK, how's about this - one can argue an alternative reading of Weird Science that transcends its apparently sexist and exploitative message.

Although the two teenage male protagonists do create what they assume to be 'the ideal woman', when confronted with their sexually powerful and socially knowledgeable creation, this only results in the realisation of their own immaturity and inter-personal shortcomings (the shower scene is ideal illustration of this). It is through her tutelage that they are able to move beyond their blinkered and baser feelings and confront both their external enemies and hurdles (Chet, the two school rivals, the bikers) and their emotional need for growth, resulting in 'real' and thus more rewarding relationships with the two girls.

The story can be read as a modern-day Pygmalion, except with great fart gags.

idoru45

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

comp_wiz101 — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:50:29 PST

Joss is Boss!

comp_wiz101

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

SuzieTampa — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:46:21 PST

Hey, who cares what messages are contained in our media, as long as we get a laugh! (banging head against wall.)

Baduncle, I never knew that Simone de Beauvoir had some geeky relative named Simon. Joss is good at feminist theory. If it were just an act to get laid, he could have dropped it long ago because there's an army of women who want him. And we could listen to his voice for hours.

Those interested in the organization he supports, can go to www.EqualityNow.org.

SuzieTampa

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

idoru45 — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:55:44 PST

God, Weird Science was funny. OK, so probably not very PC, but who cares? seen it more times than I care to admit.

You told me you were combing your hair!!!

idoru45

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

tinymoves — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 01:06:24 PST

@Shudderstep: Joss Whedon worked with feminist organizations? Cool...!
I LOVE the guys work, but I have to say I'd always rather read the cool stuff he has to say than hear it in an interview. Sorry, dude's got wicked nerd lisp. You know, that self-important nasally voice thing? Watch the commentaries on your DVDs again. Kinda bugs me. Just sayin.

tinymoves

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

El_Bandito — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 23:26:14 PST

@BadUncle: I go into frenzied fits of fury every time Serenity is mentioned. The film took Firefly's 3D characters and two-dimensionalised ALL of them.

I cried.

El_Bandito

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Serdna — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:19:59 PST

Oh, I don't think the idea of a sentient Danger Room is a bad one (There's a lot of X-men I haven't read, so I can't comment on the "been there, done that" criticism. But that Professor X would enslave a sentient being? Pretty much goes against his whole mission statement he's been living by for years and years. I don't think he has to be written as a saint or anything, but I just don't see him going there. So, Danger Room story me no likey. And if Professor X is crippled, how the fuck did he push down the gas to drive that truck anyway?

Serdna

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Rooo sez BISH PLZ — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:24:53 PST

@Gyrus: Marry me. Together we will build a superrace that appropriately appreciates the writerly metaphor.

Rooo sez BISH PLZ

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Eac_o_System — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:35:04 PST

We all hate science fiction just a little bit. Make it a healthy amount of a tablespoon, you know?

Eac_o_System

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

shudderstep — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:40:25 PST

@BadUncle:
Very true. What I liked about Buffy's take on the concept was playing up the weakness of Warren. It asked the question of "what about the creation's feelings?" Playing with genre tropes like that is what made Buffy so appealing beyond the "pretty people solving magic mysteries" audience.

shudderstep

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

BadUncle — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:12:18 PST

@shudderstep: I think you're right about the revolting motivation of the two teenage protagonists. But, ultimately their actions are shown to be born of weakness, and their scheme for sexual subjugation disastrous (albeit, temporarily).

BadUncle

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

BadUncle — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:03:39 PST

@aspiringexpatriate: I guess my reference point for feminism would be Simon de Beauvoir, rather than the "That's Not Funny" school of pedantic-liberal-guy-trying-to-get-laid-by-the-political-chicks brand that Joss appears to champion. while you don't need to be self-deprecating, there is a line between a sense of purpose and self-importance.

Not that Weird Science was a particularly good movie. But if it were a feminist affront, Kelly LeBrock would have been portrayed as the servant, rather than the mentor.

BadUncle

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

shudderstep — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:52:49 PST

The problem with Weird Science (and I was about 5 when it came out) is that the boys are essentially creating a new conscious lifeform to rape it.

Yes, rape. Don't shy away from the term, she can't consent and she's built only for their enjoyment.

Because they've created something conscious and self-aware and programmed it to serve them, parade around nude (I think she showers with them) and, if it wasn't a teeny film, sexually serve them. All this is done in a light-hearted way that never stops, even for a second, to consider the weightier issues.
"Oh, but it's just a comedy". So is "The Breakfast Club", another Hughes film that has alot more thought behind the humor. Hell, "Knocked Up" for all it's idiocy manages to address abortion and paternal rights. It's a disturbing movie to watch if you identify as a strong feminist (which I know Whedon does from his work with Equality Now) or as someone who knows anything about the extent of sexual exploitation.

Sorry to be utterly humorless about this, but joking around about sexual dehumanization is just not funny.

shudderstep

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

periodontist — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:29:51 PST

My only beef with Weird Science when I saw it as a high-schooler was that it wasn't X rated...

As far as I'm concerned, Whedon was catapulted into godlike status for me with his Firefly series. I may have to go back and watch some Buffy (I never kept up with that series). Sigh...I just wish she'd stop teasing me and show me more skin...

periodontist

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Lampbane — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:25:19 PST

@cjk:

Sometimes I forget that Astonishing X-Men is supposed to be in continuity. Because it's so out of step with what's going on in the rest of the Marvel Universe. Civil War? What's that?

Wolverine's mutant power is to be on opposite sides of the universe simultaneously.

Lampbane

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

dshramek — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:40:43 PST

Weird Science bothered me because it continued a bad trend in the John Hughes-iverse (Shermer-verse?). Let's take them in order, shall we?

Sixteen Candles, the girl gets the cute guy and the nerdy comic relief gets not a lot to show for it. Next time up, Breakfast Club. Everyone hooks up, but the nerd is left doing everyone's homework. So, to reward this nerdy comic relief (always played by Mr. Anthony Michael Hall) the only way to hook this poor bastard up with a woman is to bring in a magical woman via computer/genie scenario.

As an epilogue, we have the plight of poor Cameron Fry in Ferris Bueller, who doesn't hook up with a girl or anything, but does get to explain to his father what happened to his ultra-rare Ferrari.

Mr. Hughes hates us nerds, plain and simple.

dshramek

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

brave_otaku — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:07:55 PST

@Falconfire: I don't know how much of this version of the Alien IV script is Whedon's, but I remember reading it all in one sitting and being very excited about the movie, only to be disappointed. The script is awesome, the movie not so much.

In particular, the ending differs quite a bit in the script.

brave_otaku

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

cjk — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:50:42 PST

@Lampbane:

Good lord, YES! How the hell it's going to end up tying into what just happened with "Messiah Complex"...I shudder to think.

cjk

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

daviddonne — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:50:29 PST

Yeah- X-fans were not feeling his Danger Rooms story line because it was well traveled. The sentient Cerebro storyline from about 10 years ago was somewhat less writerly, but a lot more fun and was more of a surprise. Not that it was that original even then- we've seen this kind of story in FF, Avengers, shit... 2001. I felt like Whedon thought his idea was very revolutionary, but it just showed a lack of background with the material- no surprise- Whedon has made clear his lack of interest in any post-Claremont continuity. He writes dialogue well and has a feel for some of the characters- but his stories- mutant cure, danger room, drawn out space opera- are common for the X-Men. He was billed as the next Morrison, who truly turned the storytelling of the X-Men on its head, with fantasic results, but ultimately did little to advance the franchise. It does help his rep, though, that the last few years of the other X-titles have been utter garbage.

daviddonne

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Lampbane — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:46:25 PST

I didn't mind the Danger Room story, the one that's killing me is the Breakworld story he's doing right now. It's awful. I don't even know what's going on anymore, it's just a long string of fight scenes and betrayals and uh, Kitty and Peter had sex at some point. Oh, and Lockheed is fully sentient and working for the government. Seriously, what the hell, Joss?

Lampbane

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Frozen-Tex — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:46:04 PST

The end shot of Kelly LeBrock as the new gym teacher is one of the great moments of my youth...!

Frozen-Tex

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Ed Grabianowski — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:32:23 PST

I "got" the sentient Danger Room. It was a lame, hackneyed story, and the art was terrible (not Whedon's fault, but it didn't help).

Ed Grabianowski

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Falconfire — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:31:43 PST

@cjk: considering the canon fights we are having right now with Trek, I would shudder to think about canon fights comic geeks have considering just about every writer out there tosses crap COMPLETELY out the window every 2-3 years.

Falconfire

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

rogerniner — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:22:20 PST

Funny. I just watched this very same episode this morning, and upon viewing, my actual first thought was "Man, the writer of this must have HATED 'Weird Science'".

rogerniner

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

cjk — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:15:02 PST

I think Whedon's a great writer and I'm stoked he's workin' on stuff...but the whole "Sentient Danger Room" deal was already done before him, when the Danger Room tried to replace the X-Men with artificial nanobot-based "heroes" that were odd amalgams of current X-Men characters (like the telekinetic Jean Grey/Magneto "Gray King").

Not to mention Xavier's "Xavier Protocols" which detail him and the Danger Room (I believe) having specific techniques for killing individual members of the X-Family.

I understand he was trying to make a point, but dude...CONTINUITY WILL KILL YOU EVERY TIME! Make sure they didn't do it already in the 90's.

cjk

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

aspiringexpatriate — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:02:15 PST

@ex_ea_slave: If you don't know this about Whedon, he tends to be incredibly feminist in his portrayals of women, or at least he thinks he is. And well, building a woman to do what you want her to... not really respectful of the woman, and in the Buffy episode referenced, not respectful of the robot either.

aspiringexpatriate

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

worsethannormal — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:47:19 PST

I loved the sentient Danger Room story line. I had to read through it twice to see what it was he was doing with it, but the end where they leave Prof. X sitting in midst of the destruction he wroght by enslaving another life form was poingnant and moving.

worsethannormal

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Ex_EA_Slave — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:43:51 PST

Does anyone know what he found so offensive about the boy fantasy of building a girl? Was he looking for a deeper story from a John Hughes movie? Was he upset they didn't build a man? I realize Weird Science is far from a movie for the ages, but for what it is, a teenage boy fantasy movie, it's pretty good.

Ex_EA_Slave

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Groovymarlin — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:37:21 PST

@ChrisWren: Amen to that. Joss Whedon is my master now.

Groovymarlin

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

aspiringexpatriate — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:25:14 PST

I have to say I love that film for it's sheer complete and utter failure of brilliance. Wheadon might not be a genius, but he's a damned good writer, and Jean-Pierre Jeuneat is a genius. And good actors all around. And yet, complete and utter bullocks. Fun to watch sometimes though.

aspiringexpatriate

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Falconfire — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:22:29 PST

@theintrepidspacemanspiff: You got to remember like 90% of his script was dumped from the film. So who knows how different and possibly good his script was.

Falconfire

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

the earl of weaver — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:05:56 PST

huh. as much as I enjoy the majority of the work he's done, I'm surprised to hear that he considers alien: resurrection a huge turning point for him artistically

the earl of weaver

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Gyrus — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:01:56 PST

Joss is also very sad that X-fans didn't like his Astonishing X-Men storyline where the Danger Room becomes sentient, because he was trying to play with all sorts of clever themes of "cognitive dissonance" where we learn to sympathize with the exploited Danger Room AI. But the fans just wanted the X-men doing X-things.

Ultimately, that is the problem with super hero comics: the fans. Those of us who like the writerly metaphor thing are a minority. Most of the fan boys just want to see the same dumb fight sequences but with different costumes ("Wolverine switched back to his yellow tiger stripe in this one!") which is how we get into problems like this current Spider man nonsense. Instead of simply trying to tell a good story, it's just a string of fight sequences and to make that interesting, you have to make it an event. The comics start emulating pro-wrestling.

Gyrus

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

aspiringexpatriate — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:00:44 PST

How does someone without some self-importance ever write anything down for publishing? You have to actually think that someone wants to read what you're writing. Otherwise, well, go home.

aspiringexpatriate

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

BadUncle — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:58:35 PST

And every day he demonstrates a huge sense of self-importance. Still, I love Serenity.

BadUncle

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

Chris Wren — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:56:22 PST

Every day there's a new reason to hold Joss Whedon in esteem.

Chris Wren

Joss Whedon Hates Weird Science

BloggyMcBlogBlog — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:52:59 PST

Hey, I liked Weird Science. But then again, I was 10 when it came out.

BloggyMcBlogBlog