Plus, no, linguistic relativity is accepted in many parts of linguistics, and it becomes more accepted with every year that passes. The basic problem is that there are several formulations of said theory and some of them are accepted and some not. It depends. Some strands of Cognitive Linguistics ignore it willfully (Langacker does that a lot), then there are the Chomsky-ites like Jackendoff or Pinkerr the idiot, who can't accept it but beyond that, there's a lot of room and acceptance.

ghost

ghost

I'll have to revisit it.

I've had Deepness sitting on a shelf for years too. Started it once, and got distracted.

Seth L

JennaW

I haven't read this one, but if this means he eventually finds her attractive and ends up having sex with her then no, not totally unexpected, no. Kind of an obvious switcheroo actually. Now if he stays totally gay from beginning to end, that would be unexpected.

The Vance sounds interesting. Delany's excellent Babel-17 also centered around the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, though as I understand it S-W is about as excepted in linguistic circles as Morphic Resonance is in biological ones. It's great as a SF concept though.

rhorsman

Jeff-Minor

Yup, A Fire Upon the Deep. I think the book wrapped itself up, with the blight being destroyed by, something?

Seth L

Vance is pretty old and no longer writing very actively if at all, but a lot of his earlier work is enjoyable, and his style unique, if occasionally imitated with some success. I particularly enjoyed the Lyonesse trilogy.

Mathmos

Neal Stephenson uses this idea, sort of, in Snow Crash.

Here's a question, what book did Vinge write where there were little dog-like animals and a young boy? Fire Upon the Deep? If that's the one, did the sequel resolve the black evil fungus stuff? It seemed a little light to me.

Jeff-Minor

urukhaifive

Overall though, my all-time favorite is Simmons' [four book] Hyperion Cantos, followed closely by Iain M. Banks' Consider Phlebas. They are both beautifully written rollercoaster rides.

Pham_Nuwen

fugu_v

CSX321

And that was a pretty broad statement -- I have to really dislike something to be turned off the writer for good; other writers I liked well enough that another recommendation might lead me to another of their books even if I hadn't pursued their work based on my own first impression.

JennaW

@JENNAW: Yes, but you have pointed out a fundamental human flaw here. One that I am guilty of subscribing to (among many others, I'm afraid). Heavens to Murgatroid{!], I wouldn't be the same person if I had never read Vinge's Fire Upon the Deep. :)

So... kids, the lesson to be learned here is: judge the work at hand, but give the creator another chance? That works.

"Pham_Nuwen dusts off the dried paint and walks off into the sunset, whistling a melancholy melody."

Pham_Nuwen

Not unfair! We choose what we read based on our own taste. There are lots of great writers out there I don't get into and once tried will not try again due to not liking first try. There are too many books to keep trying things by people whose style doesn't mesh with one's own taste.

JennaW

EPILOGUE. If I didn't find Bujold/Vork saga to be of ANY interest to me, I never would have finished the one book which I did read all the way through. For example, I did not finish the Whitling, despite the fact that it is written by one of my favorite authors, simply because it did not hold my interest enough at the time I tried to read it. It's a good thing the Whitling was not my first Vernor Vinge book, as I may never have read his later masterworks. Unfair? Guilty as charged, but such is human nature. Prepare the paintball firing squad for execution.

"Pham_Nuwen requests a last cigarette and the blindfold to be removed. Long live the Queng Ho."

Pham_Nuwen

ghost

If you don't get into Shards, try Warrior's Apprentice before you give up. The tone is somewhat different as the Cordelia books are about the parents of the series' overall main character Miles and some readers don't mesh as well with the Cordelia books until AFTER they've gotten to know her via the Miles books (the flip of this is also true; some start with Warriors but don't get into the series until they've read Shards).

JennaW

Young Miles, which collects "Warror's Apprentice", the short story "Mountains of Mourning" and "The Vor Game" is after that.

FoolsRun

But Jack Vance is a hell of a writer. Habven't been so excited since I discovered Samuel Delany.

ghost

Okay, my explanation wasn't clear about all the reasons why hype = bad = paintball, so let me take a second stab at this.

What you describe is not hype. Hype implies exaggerated claims; your use of hype suggests that you read one book, didn't like it very much, and have now dismissed the entire series not only as of no interest to you (absolutely fair) but overrated (UNfair).

Using the word "hype" is always pejorative unless one prefixes it with the words "totally lived up to the" or similar.

JennaW

I then proceeded to read the rest of Bujold's library at a fever pace.

Athos actually makes a pretty good starting point; though it does increase the distance between you and your first encounter with Miles, which is tragic.

Fanboying aside, it's interesting to note that Athos is one of her first books that got published. If I recall correctly, she wrote Shards of Honor, Warrior's Apprentice and Ethan of Athos before any of them got picked up. She clearly had a pretty good idea of the timeline of Miles' life even back then. Cetaganda, which takes place at the same time as Athos and refers to it, was written many years later.

FoolsRun

Thanks for the... elaboration.

Hate to say this, but you are grasping at straws that don't exist.

To quote me: "I read one of the Vork saga books and didn't quite get into it, after reading a lot of hype about them."

To elaborate me: Bujold's Vork saga is typically well reviewed and liked by most critical and fan accounts (aka "Hype"). Being a fan of elaborate space operas, it made sense for me to want to give it a read. I did that. Didn't like it enough to read more of them. End of story.

Er... "Pham_Nuwen loads stinky diaper into bazooka and lets one rip"

;)

Pham_Nuwen

Sure, people recommend things, sometimes to the point of religious zealotry, but that means nothing about the work itself.

A person either likes a work or doesn't. People avoid things altogether and say, "I got turned off by the hype" when "It didn't sound like my kind of thing" is probably more true to reality. OR even more true is that they didn't want to be doing what everyone else was doing.

Referring to the "the hype" and how one was immune to it reads as an attempt to be above the masses.

Ergo, BOOO hype excuse! *loads paintball gun*

JennaW

I've never connected to characters as deeply as the characters in her books.

Oh, sorry sci-fi, errm:

Spaceships, clones (lots of clones), eugenics, interstellar war, and mercenaries!

Oh and I though Athos was one of her weakest books.

Start with Cordelia's Honor, or The Warrior's Apprentice.

@zerofritz:

That would have been my guess too.

Seth L

/a paintball gun will suffice"

WTF? Confused... care to elaborate?

Pham_Nuwen

MilesFromNowhere

JennaW

What me being vague 'bout? I was referring to Seth's comment.
I guess I should start using this cernfounded arrow pointy thingy...

Plague

zerofritz

/a paintball gun will suffice

JennaW

JennaW

That cover for Ethan of Athos is oddly hilarious to me... it now adorns my desktop, but I will probably skip reading the book. :) I read one of the Vork saga books and didn't quite get into it, after reading a lot of hype about them.

Pham_Nuwen

Plague

You owe it to yourself to read the Vorkosigan series (Athos is set in the same continuity).

No, I mean it. Go out and buy it right now.

Seth L

JennaW

Annalee Newitz

:-D

Ed Grabianowski