Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever? - io9 Comments

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

steeleye — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:51:20 PDT

Let's face it - "Silent Running", "Logan's Run" and "Soylent Green" are all pretty damn lame, anyway.

To hold them up as paragons of SF is to miss the point entirely.

[electronictiger.net]

steeleye

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Crrusherr — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:51:09 PDT

independence day was awesome

Crrusherr

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Klebert L. Hall — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:57:27 PDT

@Annalee Newitz:

I'm with you. Hate E.T.

-Kle.

Klebert L. Hall

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Space_Crime — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:56:55 PDT

ID for is the culprit for me.

The question is, will a major studio ever going to buck the trend by launching an engaging feast for the brain sci-fi.

Probably not. Why? You do know.

Space_Crime

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Grandjester — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:50:26 PDT

@femto: \

Fly? Buckaroo Banzai?

Grandjester

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

RRich — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:13:25 PDT

Independence Day.

What a steaming turd that was, with those Macintosh-compatible aliens.

Good trailer, tho.

RRich

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

femto — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:55:40 PDT

and that other movie, which is not sci fi.

femto

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

femto — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:55:05 PDT

@Grandjester: My point was, he only did it tolerably in Independence Day. Powder and Jurassic Park were intolerable because of his schtick.

femto

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Grandjester — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:07:50 PDT

@femto:

Yeah cause we'd NEVER seen Goldblum do the whole "science guy smarter than everyone who figures the whole thing out before everyone else schtickt before".

Grandjester

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

ejp1082 — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:59:39 PDT

Maybe it's just my imagination, but I think that there's a lot more high brow science fiction being made in recent years than there has been since the 70's. Children of Men, Serenity, and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind all come to mind as having been released in the last few years. The whole premise is backwards.

Oh and Batman didn't kick off comic book movies. It's actually near the tale end of the first generation of comic book movies, that began with the Christopher Reeves Superman. The modern CG heavy, less campy era of comic book movies really kicked off with X-Men.

ejp1082

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

AirDave — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:57:07 PDT

I'll agree that Independence Day didn't help Sci-Fi any, but I think The Matrix II and III and Minority Report and I-Robot should have been on the list.

AirDave

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

edosan — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:56:59 PDT

I vote for Independence Day, because it made Hollywood believe that every SciFi movie had to be a Big Action Movie and it was the beginning of the curse of Will Smith as SciFi hero.

Seriously, Fresh Prince needs to stick to Bad Boys sequels instead of taking books I love and destroying them.

edosan

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Dtox — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:54:47 PDT

Sci-fi will officially become dead if the remake of "The Day the Earth Stood Still" starring-"I am a F-B-I agent" Keanu Reeves is actually made. Don't mess with a classic...they already botched "Planet of the Apes".

Dtox

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

adaorardor — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:21:11 PDT

@dirtybacon: agreed, however i'd amend that and say that '4' is everything that is wrong with the movie itself.

adaorardor

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

adaorardor — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:20:04 PDT

@codydog: so what does it mean when i had absolutely no problem writing a 20 page paper on a 30 second long clip from tarkovsky's solaris? my point about information density is that you're failing to read a lot of information that is delivered in film, maybe because you don't expect it to be so rich. while you are able to recognize subtext in literature, for some reason you seem to skip all the subtext in film. that said, it's a bit pointless to have a pissing contest over information density in these two mediums, because information is delivered in radically different ways, and it's in part dependent on the talent of the filmmaker / author. for example, however flawed the last bit of 'sunshine' is, the first 30 seconds or so of the film, just the tracking shot of the ship before we see any of the actors, is one of the most efficient pieces of art i've ever seen. that clip alone talks about the capitalist spectacle, religious ecstasy, the simulacrum, the construction of identity (desire), etc...

adaorardor

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

BlindKarma — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:14:42 PDT

Star Wars... But I should say Joseph Campbell more then Lucas. Pew Pew and splosions you need every now and then.

The Heroes Journey made just about every Genre flick the exact same movie.

BlindKarma

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Freebadeebadingdong — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:03:20 PDT

I agree with 'B'.

Freebadeebadingdong

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

dirtybacon — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:13:30 PDT

Also, am I the only one annoyed that Independence Day is referred to as ID4? I despise that 4 even more then the movie.

dirtybacon

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

dirtybacon — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:12:37 PDT

Glad to see that Independence Day is hated by everyone else as much as it is by me.

And I have a bone to pick with the Batman call out... being a comic book geek, I don't think that opened the floodgate. It made people take notice, but I'd blame X-Men or Spider-man on that. (however, I say the more the merrier.... it's all still comics on the big screen. woo!)

dirtybacon

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

BtownDesignGuy — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:06:45 PDT

But if Star Wars was never the runaway success that it was -- and let us remember, Star Wars was one of the first prototypes of a movie with a multitude of special effects, explosions, and merchandising tie-ins -- would we have ID4 or JP?

BtownDesignGuy

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Balius — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 05:34:46 PDT

@Signal: I, Robot was never introspective...unless you believe it has anything to do with the book other than the name?

The whole movie was unnecessary.

Balius

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Palliard — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 05:29:56 PDT

Star Wars was more of tipping point for fantasy. Many people forget that 1977 also saw the last in the line of a different sort of fantasy films: "Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger". Ray Harryhausen monsters, preposterous fantasy quests, ridiculous costumes, all that great stuff in its penultimate form got trounced by "Star Wars", which was largely the same stuff in SPAAAACE with a better sense of mythopeoia.

While I don't think science fiction has been ruined FOREVER, if I had to pick a tipping point it would probably be "Armageddon". Phil Plaitt has dissected this movie admirably, but the sheer anti-intellectualness of it makes it stand out as the movie that, more than any in recent times, took the spirit of science out of science fiction. "An asteroid is going to murder us all!" "Outta the way, Poindexter, it's time for MEN to blow shit up!"

Palliard

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

DragonsDream — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 05:06:34 PDT

What a stupid poll. It's based on the false premise that there was some golden era of sci-fi where all the hits were also intellectually stimulating. Blaming Star Wars or ID4 is like blaming Raiders of the Lost Ark for bad action movies.

As previously mentioned, Children of Men disproves this entire theory. As does A Scanner Darkly, Dark City, X2, Serenity, Twelve Monkeys, Donnie Darko and Contact.

Better luck next poll.

DragonsDream

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Signal — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:36:17 PDT

@tezby: Alien vs Predator has little to do with the original Alien other than the character.

ID4 was stand alone but it spawned a whole trend of massive, over the top action sequences and "nuking it" as the default solution to any scientific problem. See: The Core, Sunshine.

Signal

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Signal — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:28:41 PDT

Add I, Robot to the list of unnecessary action in a sci-fi movie. I swear if they put a chase scene in the Ender's Game movie I'm going to poop in a box and mail that to the director.

Signal

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

tezby — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:24:18 PDT

I can't believe the hate for ID4. I went in knowing it was going to be total pulp and that - just like Star Wars - was what it was, 50s pulp done up with the best o contemporary fx. I didn't expect it to be quality high brow SF, I wanted a thrill ride and got one.

On the other hand I think Burton's Batman was the begining of the end. It was the first of the massively over promoted film with pretensions to art that spawned a series of sequels that just got progressively worse as they went on. ID4 was a stand alone film and, love it
or hate it was massively successful. You couldjust as reasonably blame Alien for Alien vs Predator.

tezby

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Signal — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:12:18 PDT

ID4 started the whole popcorn sci-fi trend. Men in Black, Armageddon, Transformers. It actually ruined a lot of decent concepts by actionifying them: The Island, Minority Report, etc. I can imagine scifi directors nowadays go: "This script is really bland and cliched. Hey let's add a chase scene with big explosions and crashes! Large things falling down! Car chases plus gunfights equals cash."

The original Predator, Terminator 2, and Aliens are how to do scifi-action the right way. Imagine them as action movies first; scifi is just a setting. The chase scenes in T2 were great as chase scenes, but even BETTER because they show how unstoppable the cyborgs were. By contrast, the chase scenes in The Island and Minority report add NOTHING to the story. Don't put stupid action sequences in a story just to get money. That's pandering.

Signal

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

CppThis — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:25:05 PDT

None of these really 'ruined' science fiction, hell the only reason there's been much of anything in the genre since the 70s is because of several on this list. It's a different genre now, but at least there's more than 12 people in the country who care. And lest we forget, while there have been a few good SF flicks from each decade, 90% of the releases have always been low-budget, low-talent dogshit mass produced to fill empty screens. Ed Wood, anyone?

What killed sci-fi is a dearth of creativity, which frankly I blame mostly on stuffy, concieted geeks who, upon learning that any new movie is being released (even before any details are known), immediately flame it ad nauseum while getting off on how great the 'classics' were and nothing will ever be as good as them, no matter what. Why make a movie if your core audience isn't going to watch it?

CppThis

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Spacehamster — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:51:06 PDT

Even though I loved Star Wars as a kid, I voted for it anyway. There seems to have been a dearth of dramatic thoughtful Science fiction films after 1977. It seemed that every Hollywood Studio thought a Sci-Fi film had to have laser guns and huge explosions.

As a result, most modern Science Fiction is languishing in the Fifties.

Spacehamster

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Slatz_Grobnik — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:22:08 PDT

Seriously, kids, we're supposed to be SF fans. Yet we're here, longing for some nostalgic golden age back when good sf movies were made, because there's no way we could do it in the future, as things will never be as good as they once were..

I highly suspect that there was not a watershed moment somewhere between today and 1977 when Sci-Fi went to crap under lurid suggestions of the blockbuster. I find it entirely more likely that there has always been a few good SF movies, more bad SF movies, and a sizable number over which there's considerable room for debate.

ID4, I think, is bearing much of the hate because it is the movie that is the birth of the "contemporary" summer blockbuster. It has positively zero to do with the quality (or lack thereof) of the film.

Slatz_Grobnik

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

lever2k — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:06:10 PDT

On the ET front: I might be one of the few kids who HATED ET when he saw it. I just felt it was so manipulative and cutesy. It's made me hard on ALL Spielberg efforts (sans Indiana Jones) since then, because I consider him such a manipulative heartstring junkie (I think he's gotten better in the last decade, it's still there, but just a tad subtler). However, all that said, I went to ET when it was re-released, it wasn't half as bad as I remember it being. In fact, it's not that bad at all. I was quite surprised to have had that reaction, but there you are.

lever2k

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

lever2k — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:55:52 PDT

Though I voted for ID4, I do have to admit that my beloved Star Wars is really a watershed point for scifi movies. Before it there were good and bad scif movies, some each, but good ones still got made. After Star Wars, I would say not all, but most, scifi movies began to lust after blockbusterdom, after huge ticket sales. However, I bet I can name more truly GOOD scifi that came out in the last 30 years than I can name that came before that time, the time of SW's release. And, it can only increase as the access to movie making tools and the cost of said continue to drop.

Before SW "Serious" sf: Day the Earth Stood Still, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Silent Running, The Andromeda Strain, Logan's Run, Soylant Green, Planet of the Apes, A Clockwork Orange, The Time Machine, Forbidden Planet, Metropolis, Solaris, Man Who Sold The Earth, Slaughterhouse Five, A Boy and His Dog, The Thing, Things to Come, The Omega Man, Frankenstein, Rollerball.

After SW "Serious" sf: Alien, Blade Runner, ET, 2010, Terminator, Solaris (Clooney version), Gattaca, Akira, Pi, Primer, Vanilla Sky, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, AI, Dark City, The Matrix, Donnie Darko, Contact, The Abyss, Brother From Another Planet, The Hidden, Children of Men, The Last Starfighter, The Quiet Earth, The Road Warrior, Serenity, Signs, Starman, The Philadelphia Experiment, Minority Report, The Thing, Time After Time, Enemy Mine, Altered States, Brainstorm, Brazil, Jurassic Park, Robocop, Strange Days, Supernova, Event Horizon, Existenz, Ghost in the Shell, 28 Days Later, 12 Monkeys, Fight Club, The Fountain, The Man From Earth, Outland, The Truman Show, The Running Man, Invasion of the Body Snatchers (Sutherland version), Back to the Future, Escape From New York, They Live, Total Recall, Star Trek: Th e Motion Picture, Dune.

I still stand by the vote for ID4. It, along with Armageddon, is a reason a lot of bad scifi action movies have been green-lighted since that time. The reason ID4 disappointed so is that it claimed to be science fiction, but has such tenuous science that it makes Trek and even SW seem rigorous. Worse, it throw out all semblance of having a decent story instead replacing it with scene chewing and effects for effects sake. It created the justification for a lot of scifi Tower Infernos (which is itself FAR superior to ID4, and what a sad statement that is, eh?)

lever2k

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy! — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:30:10 PDT

Is there any particular reason that science fiction would be seen as dying off because sci-fi movies are getting more and more action packed?

What about horror/violence? Aliens, was/is, in my opinion, one of the best sci-fi pictures around, but it sure has its share of brutality and flesh-melting acid and alien mucous egg sacks, and a hell of a good story to boot.

Hate on Spielberg all you like, but Minority Report was a good flick. Pundits be damned.

Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Pope John Peeps II — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:19:39 PDT

HEY. You gamed this survey by not including the craptastic first three star wars rotting garbagefests.

Pope John Peeps II

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

femto — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:07:08 PDT

I can't believe all the Independence Day hate. Sure, it had was chock full of Will Smith and explosions, something there is way too much of now, but it was popular because it filled a gap in those areas in sci fi movies at the time. It was also Jeff Goldblum's last decent film, exhonerating him from Powder before he slid into obscurity.

femto

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

robotstephe — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:53:34 PDT

I think we can all safely blame WIll Smith for the "Summer Movie Debacle"

robotstephe

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Plague — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:25:18 PDT

@codydog:
"Bruce Willis crap" was Armageddon, not Deep Impact.

Plague

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

codydog — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:15:17 PDT

@EBone: But "Deep Impact" had real science in it, and was a much better movie, but never gets mentioned. People love crap. Especially Bruce Willis crap.

codydog

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

codydog — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:13:46 PDT

@adaorardor: Turning a 700 page book into a 120 minute movie gives just under 6 pages a minute. Not going to happen.

A page of screenplay is one minute of screen time, and that page is mostly blank space.

So the last Harry Potter has to be two movies, and will still leave out half the book.

That's what i mean by information density. One feature film equals about three comic books, which take me about a half hour to read.

And if you think any SF movie has the satire of a decently snarky book, go read "The Space Merchants" a very short book, or "The Silver Eggheads"

codydog

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

adaorardor — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:25:57 PDT

@jp182: no, e.t. is much worse than independence day and jurassic park. i personally don't think that it had any lasting detrimental effect on sci-fi films, however.

adaorardor

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

jp182 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:06:38 PDT

wow, i'm surprised there's so much hate for E.T.

But I think my love of it stems from the fact that it was the first sci-fi movie i ever saw. I can see why some people don't like it but there are worst movies on this list like Independence Day or Jurassic Park

jp182

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Garrison Dean, King Awesome — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:58:49 PDT

@unplugandrun: I gotta say... he makes a lot of good points. hahah, seriously though get me the petition to make "Ooovay Bowl" the only film director out there and I'll sign it just for fun.

Garrison Dean, King Awesome

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

superbryant — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:53:27 PDT

its so the MAtrix what a dumb movie......okay the 3rd one was okay but come on!....LAME!!!

superbryant

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

DCI Gene Hunt — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:48:53 PDT

@Annalee Newitz: I know it's late to chime in, but thank goodness I'm not alone in my extreme dislike of E.T.

I got some good venting in on the Spielberg bashing thread yesterday, but mostly, I get tired of that Seinfeld/English Patient reaction every time I mention how much I hate E.T... I just hear a bunch of yentas start crowing "Oh, I love E.T.! How can you not love E.T.!"

Shiver.

DCI Gene Hunt

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

unplugandrun — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:47:35 PDT

unplugandrun

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

unplugandrun — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:47:16 PDT

lol i enjoyed (loathed) the infinite plothole machine (energon cube) that blesses all technology with the gift of life (missiles and attitude)!

i can see how its the fans that butcher our memories almost beyond recognition, but hopefully we can sign more petitions to keep bad directors from shoveling out garbage to the public; you know, like that uwe boll petition? comin for you next, bay!

[www.petitiononline.com]
and in case you haven't seen his reaction...

ahh good times spiting bad directors

unplugandrun

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

humperdinck — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:37:56 PDT

While I disagree that sci-fi has been ruined, I voted for Independence Day, since it was the likeliest precursor to the I, Robot movie, the one true blight upon science fiction.

I weep for Isaac Asimov.

humperdinck

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Shiryu — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:25:34 PDT

Hard ont to decide... im gonna put my vote on... E.T. Not that it's a bad movie or anything, its just that (even when I was a kid) I like a bit of "pew pew pew" and now like CGI space vistas that I could only dream off back then.

Off I go back to "Robot Jox", thank you Charlie, for reminding me the other day how mech combat was made before CGI.

Shiryu

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Garrison Dean, King Awesome — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:09:09 PDT

@Plague: @monomyth: Yeah I was really pissed about the lack of logic in a Michael Bay film based on toys that were robots from outterspace that transformed into vehicles that just happened to look exactly like earth vehicles. I mean... THE SCIENCE IS RIGHT THERE!!! and they learn english through the tubes!! GAWD!

Also... Where was all the subtle character development?

Garrison Dean, King Awesome

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Dunny0 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:00:37 PDT

@Garrison Dean, King Awesome: Finally, a Historical Romance I can get behind!

Dunny0

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Plague — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:00:24 PDT

@monomyth:
Am I ever amused when people complain about "logic" when it comes to transforming robots from outer space.
Reality, it's a tad tricky.

Plague

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Grey_Area — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:00:13 PDT

@Garrison Dean, King Awesome: Best. Movie. Ever. Can't wait for the sequel, "io10".

Grey_Area

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Plague — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:59:00 PDT

@Garrison Dean, King Awesome:
Nah, that wasn't it.

Plague

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

monomyth — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:58:04 PDT

Transformers is not only an insult to sci-fi, but to logic in general with their frozen robots that learn english over the Tubes.

[cache.jalopnik.com]

monomyth

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Garrison Dean, King Awesome — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:51:22 PDT

@Plague: Maybe it was the summer of 2010's big budget experimentation film called "i09" about a young couple in love in 18th century France who are torn apart by a local squabble between two towns. Set across a 5 year period the costume drama was primarily considered sci-fi because of a lengthy dream sequence where the couple walk through the stars and the 5 minute scene towards the end where the young man, Charles Jean concocts a big machine gun to attack the rival town.

Garrison Dean, King Awesome

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

EBone — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:45:59 PDT

If ID4 didn't kill thoughtful science fiction in favor of big explosions, then "Armageddon" drove the nail in the coffin on July 1, 1998.

EBone

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Garrison Dean, King Awesome — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:44:28 PDT

Independance Day... Not because of its quality, but because of its quality in proportion to our exitment for it at the time. I'll never forget the overwhealming sense of confusing meh as I left that theater.. I like it more now as time has passed, but boy did I hate it then. That feeling would come again with Episode 1.

Garrison Dean, King Awesome

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Plague — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:42:21 PDT

@Tim Faulkner:
Well said it was.

Who killed sci fi? When after all it was you and me...

And effin' stupid polls like this.

Plague

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

zenpoet — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:39:03 PDT

Garbage Pale Kids. That was the tip of the shitberg, which all others must pass and pay homage to, before rolling down the hill to hell.

zenpoet

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

adaorardor — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:32:19 PDT

@codydog: well, it's possible i'm misunderstanding your point, but for what it's worth, i completely disagree (with your valuation). i can't think of a film genre that that doesn't employ widespread "speculation, satire, and disguised political commentary." now it may be true that you don't recognize those things in film, but again that's a failure on the part of the reader. film can (and has to be) 'read' just as a book can be 'read', and for every heinlein (or herbert...) there's a tarkovsky. but that's even almost besides the point; there's no reason why film doesn't deserve the cultural cache that printed matter is granted, as even the worst films (like, i don't know, independence day or pirates of the caribbean) are full of valuable cultural criticism, you just have to be smart enough to read it.

as far as information density, if you're talking bits/bytes, maybe you'd have a point. hell, even if you're talking film adaptations of books (like harry potter or i robot or lord of the rings) you at least have an argument (though the counter argument is that it's not an issue of 'information density' but poor film making). otherwise, not so much; where every word in a book carries weight and meaning, every movement of a camera, color, sound, transition etc. carries just as much meaning in a film. and by meaning, i mean ideology.

adaorardor

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

bayamus — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:31:01 PDT

Independence Day gets my vote because in it's wake came MIB I & II, i Robot and I am Legend. I admit I liked MIB and even most of I am Legend but if we are basing this poll on hollywoodesque scifi entertainment than ID4 is hard to beat. No other cute alien movie ala E.T. has ever made it big.

bayamus

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

vurtscribe — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:23:28 PDT

@Tim Faulkner: The fans only works as an answer if it's the fans that are making the movies and then complaining. Without the fans, there wouldn't be SF. Along with fans come the annoying side effects like polls and endless debates on which is better Star Trek, Star Wars, BSG, or Farscape.

vurtscribe

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Tim Faulkner — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:17:26 PDT

If anything ruined/ruins science fiction, it was/will be the fans. There, I said it.

Tim Faulkner

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Chrysla — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:14:19 PDT

@firesign: Using firefox. Don't get me wrong - love this site and won't leave - just frustrated! This happens on both of my work computers and at the home computer.

Chrysla

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Jenn2D2 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:13:22 PDT

@unplugandrun: I'm with you on the Transformers! Michael Bay single-handedly trashed an entire genre with that plotless drek and dismantled a cherished memory of an entire generation.

Jenn2D2

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

codydog — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:08:03 PDT

I thought of a better example. "A Scanner Darkly" Haven't gotten around to watching the movie, but the book was very far out. I guess the movie sucked, because nobody ever mentions it.

But as a book, it had a real impact.

codydog

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

vurtscribe — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:02:51 PDT

@Spiral: But what would I do on Saturday mornings without Chupacabra, Chupacabra 2, Supergator, and the entire suite of movies devoted to over sized snakes?

vurtscribe

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

DSTRYA — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:58:53 PDT

i voted for the Tim Burton Batman, even tho as an example of the genre it is highly suspect. But i hate jack Nicholson's Joker and his gross/weird mouth make up so much in that film that i felt it at least deserved a "Nay."

DSTRYA

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

aspiringexpatriate — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:56:31 PDT

Insult Transformers all you want, it wasn't a good film. But the CGI was a far cry from bad.

aspiringexpatriate

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

C-J — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:55:25 PDT

Maybe it goes further back: didn't Stargate's success pave the way for action/sci-fi?

We can definitely blame it for ID4, Godzilla, 10,000B.C...

C-J

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Recury — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:54:59 PDT

"Before Star Wars, we had Silent Running, Soylent Green, Logan's Run. Afterwards... pew pew pew!"

I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't know if Star Wars really ruined it, but it seems to mark the point where movies like those stopped getting made or stopped getting made as easily. Plus I hate Star Wars so it makes for a convenient answer.

And just think, if Star Wars hadn't been so popular, George Lucas probably would have made THX 1139! Uh, maybe.

Recury

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

firesign — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:37:58 PDT

@Chrysla: ummm, what browser are you using? works fine in firefox, safari, and ie 6.

firesign

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

codydog — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:32:35 PDT

@Grey_Area: Sure. I havent read him for years, but you know the stuff a writer can do with a half page of exposition, might take a whole more to do.

Like "Explain black holes" Or better example, the old Niven story about the spacemen getting killed by the tides around a Neutron Star. That would be a really bad movie.

codydog

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Chrysla — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:30:58 PDT

Once again, I cannot vote because I cannot see the list or the results. What list? where? Can anyone help me so I can participate in polls???????????????????????????????????????? I have yet to be able to do this anytime they ask for vote.

Chrysla

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Dillenger69 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:29:42 PDT

@DarkPlaces: The Matrix was the first movie I thought of, and it's not on the list.

As soon as that's on the list I'll vote.

Dillenger69

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

codydog — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:29:03 PDT

@Gyrus: Least Common Denominator. A book costs one guy a year maybe, a thousand bags of cheetos and ten thousand cups of coffee. It might sell a few tens of thousands of copies, make maybe 50,000 bucks tops.

A movie takes hundreds of people years, costs a hundred mill, and has to sell to tens of millions of people to break even. So it has to be more general in appeal, ie "Dumber"

codydog

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

codydog — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:24:24 PDT

@adaorardor: Information density. Spoken dialogue is less dense than reading, filling video screens with pretty pictures is less informative than print or graphs, for example.

Plus, historically SF has been a literature of speculation, satire and disguised political commentary.

Very little of that in any genre of motion pictures.

And as for dumb, i can find few other words for watching a movie a hundred times. I like movies, but as amusement, not as life lessons or philosophical treatises.

Nothing wrong with that. There are lots of dumb SF books, 90% of the genre, but there are a few that try to make one think. Rudy Rucker comes to mind, and Elizabeth Bear. Heinlein and Kornbluth/Pohl for the old guys.

codydog

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

zslane — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:24:13 PDT

Well, if one must pick from that list alone, then it pretty much has to be Star Wars. I suspect that most here who vote otherwise are too young to have experienced the phenomenon that Star Wars was when it came out in 1977, and how it utterly shaped cinematic "sci-fi" for decades to come, and not always for the better.

zslane

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Grey_Area — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:18:12 PDT

@codydog: Exactly. Not one SciFi movie has impressed me as much as a borderline adequately written book. I'd take Alan Dean Foster over Star Wars any day. These movies have their place of course: Insert popcorn, remove brain, enjoy.

@Rus: I suspected as much.

Grey_Area

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

lazyeight — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:14:28 PDT

@Mathmos: While I'm with you on the movie Sci-fi already being a miasma, I'm alongside SavannahJack with ST:The Movie for the point of blockbuster decline

lazyeight

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

unplugandrun — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:12:39 PDT

ewwwwwwwww

you guys voted id4 over transformers?!
michael bay's robotic abortion both crushed my hopes of a decent rehash of my childhood and promised to shit on me a second time...

THEY EVEN HAD FENG ZHU DESIGN THE ROBOTS; but bay likes to focus on ONE gear turning at a time- what a waste of talent.

bay should leave my nostalgia be and go back to making bad boys movies... jerk...

unplugandrun

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Balius — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:03:42 PDT

I voted Star Wars. Don't get me wrong, it was great at the time...which is the problem. It cemented Sci-fi in the minds of a wider audience as Star Wars, when Sci-fi could be so broad a genre that it defies categorization. Ever since, if Star Wars isn't the type of movie someone likes, they will try to avoid Sci-fi. The popular movies since then have had to shake off that stigmata to appeal to wider audiences. In addition, the movies that embrace the Sci-fi elements tend to do so with Star Wars similar space battles, which is where action really started becoming the focal point.

It would be a very different genre without Star Wars.

Balius

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Counterglow — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:59:34 PDT

Star Wars, no question. Pseudo-religious clap-trap grafted onto an aggressively low-brow cowboy movie. It was great for hard-core science fiction fans who could take it for what it was and who would still support real science fiction movies.

Unfortunately, it expanded the audience to include a huge number of eye candy fans, and they've been catered to ever since.

Counterglow

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Spiral — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:58:34 PDT

I will propose the idea that Jurassic Park is responsible for Scifi Channel's monster-movie happy trend. Nothing against Jurassic Park, but without it we would be free from Supergator and its cohorts.

Spiral

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

wolfjoat — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:55:43 PDT

Personally I voted for ID4 because it really did marry science fiction to the action flick. Now I don't think that SciFi action movies are a bad thing but they do feel overdone as of late.

@nuromansr: The thing about Burton's Batman movies is that while they showed that comic book movies could work, Schumacher killed the movement while it was still in its infancy with his more "comic book" ones. If you want to blame someone for the recent influx of comic book movies, blame X-men. It was a great film but it was also the catalyst for all the crap we're seeing now.

wolfjoat

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Gyrus — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:54:44 PDT

@codydog: The information density in a video medium is pretty low, no matter what.

Books are for the heavy stuff, vids are for fun. I have no problem with any of that.

I think you have a good point here. I think we can all agree that films don't hold the same bitrate as the printed page but there's still somethign to be said for using the available bit rate of film to it's fullest advantage. This can be done with either flashy CGI and explosions or with intellectual weightlifting but for some reason, it doesn't seem to be possible to do both.

I'm all for snarking at lame movies but seriously, why is it that we can't get a film with a more evenly distributed information density? Why aren't there more Blade Runners instead of the hundredth star Wars clone?

is it just as simple as market tatses veer towards dumb media? Or is there a more complicated variable in this equation?

Gyrus

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Discodave — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:53:49 PDT

ID4 gets my vote for film that made it harder for decent sci-fi to get made over CGI reliant crap. Yes, there are still great sci-fi films out there, but unless they look great they're normally screwed at the box office.
Case in point - I thought Cypher was a great film, but I'd heard nothing about it at all until I stumbled across it on a movie channel.
It was clever, well conceived but looked like the inside of a cubicle for most of the time ergo: no-one watched it.

Discodave

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Mills — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:52:24 PDT

My very first thought was Spiderman, because it was huge and it felt like the first superhero movie to be a blockbuster.

But I went for Independance Day-because the ones before it you could at least argue were good. ID4 was really about blowing things up.

Mills

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

vurtscribe — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:52:00 PDT

Independence Day just seemed to suck the soul out of SF in a way that few movies have been able to. I don't think SF is dead, by any shot, I think that it's not as good as purists would like it to be (as in, it relies too much on the CGI and the action and less on the cerebral aspects of the genre).

vurtscribe

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Mathmos — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:50:43 PDT

Movie Scifi was ruined before any summer blockbusters came along. Remember Plan 9 From Outer Space, or Santa Claus Conquers the Martians? But if we must mention blockbusters, there's something to be said for all of the choices provided. Personally I vote for Star Wars Episode 1.

Mathmos

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

adaorardor — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:50:20 PDT

@codydog: Wha wha wha?! how in the hell are movies dumb? i'm pretty sure a film, just like any other cultural product (including books), is only as intelligent as it's audience.

adaorardor

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Charlie Jane Anders — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:48:09 PDT

@Annalee Newitz: Wait. E.T. invented the phrase "penis breath?" I thought it had been around forever before that.

Charlie Jane Anders

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

NefariousNewt — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:48:05 PDT

Interesting omission: Terminator 2. Given the level of sophistication in CGI and effects and the powerhouse story, every movie after that was a case of one-upsmanship.

NefariousNewt

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

slmcdee — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:47:32 PDT

I'm gonna dust off the old crystal ball and say Hancock. Can't speak for the world, but its definitely gonna ruin Will Smith's Science Fiction Movie Summer.

slmcdee

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Charlie Jane Anders — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:46:39 PDT

@DarkPlaces: The Matrix wasn't a summer movie. Although one of the sequels was.

Charlie Jane Anders

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Mister Adequate — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:45:56 PDT

@Seth L: It's not really Kevin Costner's fault that everyone decided to irrationally hate Kevin Costner one day.

Mister Adequate

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Dunny0 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:45:23 PDT

I'm going to have to jump on the ID4 hate train...

It did seem to be the start of the "there's a cool idea in this movie, see if you can spot it between awesome explosions and awesome effects work!"

Although, for me, SciFi movies hit a new low with the "adaptation" of the Hitchhiker's Guide. That movie was a let down on so many levels.

Dunny0

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

adaorardor — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:45:09 PDT

Independence Day. It's the reason the last 1/3 or 'Sunshine' sucked.

adaorardor

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

NefariousNewt — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:44:05 PDT

@Annalee Newitz: A kindred soul! E.T. is typical Spielberg dreck. Smarmy, sappy, joyless. Hell, I'm pretty sure that's why Drew Barrymore got hooked on drugs as a kid!

NefariousNewt

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Dr. Spaceman, Esq. — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42:41 PDT

The first modern action blockbuster, Die Hard.

Dr. Spaceman, Esq.

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

codydog — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:41:32 PDT

@B: I agree with you.. I mean, if SF survived both makes of "The Blob" it is bulletproof. There was a ton of crap sf up to SW IV, and a ton afterwards. And SW IV was not all that great, intellectually. Just a 1930's Space Opera, and Homage to the 1930's serials.

Movies are inherently dumb, live with it.. The information density in a video medium is pretty low, no matter what.

Books are for the heavy stuff, vids are for fun. I have no problem with any of that.

It's just that movie critics are pretentious buttheads, trying to justify their salaries, and the great overwashed don't like to think under any conditions. Just like in Shakespeare's Day. That's why the drunk jokes.

codydog

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

JennaW — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:40:34 PDT

@Rus: Hey, even *I* am not going to blame Schumacher for that. After all, America reviled the Schumacher Batman and the stench of his involvment in the fourth one it hung around Clooney's neck like an albatross for many years.

JennaW

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Miranda Kali — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:40:24 PDT

@Rus:
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos...

Miranda Kali

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Seth L — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:40:13 PDT

70's Sci-fi would have died without Star Wars.

Jaws had as big a hand in nurturing the hollywood blockbuster mentality.

I'm going with Waterworld. It bombed so hard hollywood became really squeamish of sci-fi.

Seth L

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

nuromansr — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:39:13 PDT

I'm with you B....if you're addicted to sci-fi then the local multiplex is your crack house in the summer, and that's not a bad thing; you just have to do more research to keep from consuming the truly nasty stuff.
But they became Sci-Fi Summers because of Star Wars. And they've become Comic Book/Sci-Fi Summers thanks to Batman.
And all of it makes me realize I should have taken computer science in college instead of those damn useless business/government/poli-sci classes, so I too could become a CGI Jedi Master...

nuromansr

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Metropolis — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:38:41 PDT

While I want to say Star Wars I just can't in good conscience because ID4 was the death of SciFi. Leaving the the theater after watching ID4 I vowed never to enter a theater again. Sure, I haven't kept that vow completely but some movies I just need to be seen big screen no matter how annoying an audience can be.

Metropolis

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

augie1 — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:36:59 PDT

I blame Spielberg, of course.

augie1

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Rus — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:30:37 PDT

Burton's Batmans weren't great, but Joel Schumacher's Batmans made Americans dumb enough to vote George W. Bush into office. Twice.

Rus

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

SavannahJack — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:30:21 PDT

Oh, pardon.
I didn't realize this was "Which of these blockbusters did you hate most?"
I thought you were actually asking about some sort of tipping point for the cheesing of Gollywierd SciFi, and that point, if'n you was paying attention, was the return of Star Trek in the 70s. FatKirk and the Old Crew started the whole thing of defunct TV series to movies, endless serial sequels, flog-it-to-death "high concept" sci-fi movies (Veeee Jerrr says Persis "I've got hair now" Kambata).
And so on.

SavannahJack

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Annalee Newitz — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:29:57 PDT

Hate E.T. HATE HATE HATE. Now I hate it even more because Spielberg's anniversary edition sanitized it further by taking out the one funny line which launched the epithet "penis breath." WTF people?

Annalee Newitz

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Miranda Kali — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:29:28 PDT

Independence Day would not have been it but for that one moment...
..Randy Quaid.
..In the jet.
..at they end.
It chills my blood and makes me nauseous to think about it.

Miranda Kali

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

extracrispy — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:29:24 PDT

I refuse to participate in this poll on the grounds that it is a retarded non sequitur.

Case in point: Children of Men.

extracrispy

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

DCI Gene Hunt — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:28:59 PDT

Good choices and good reasons for all. But come on... is Io9 just trying to bait my Spielberg-hate again today?

First the machine AI piece with a pic from that shit-tastic movie, then the ET headline pic?

DCI Gene Hunt

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Tim Faulkner — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:28:43 PDT

What the heck? One week, scifi is becoming serious literature, this week it's dead. (Does everyone forget that scifi sucked far worse before Star Wars no matter how much you want to make Lucas your whipping boy? How hard is it to understand and accept that 90% of scifi like most genres sucks?) Can I vote for io9 for having little sense of history and cogency?

Tim Faulkner

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Plague — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:27:53 PDT

Which (blah blah blah) did (blah blah blah) and (blah blah blah)ed?

Plague

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

DarkPlaces — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:22:04 PDT

You missed the one that, while fantastic, destroyed cinema in every aspect: The Matrix

DarkPlaces

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:21:42 PDT

Uhhh, can I vote for none of the above? I don't think Sci Fi has been ruined. In fact, the more sci fi movies made, the better.

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Whitworthian — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:20:29 PDT

Definitely Independence Day, as it was the first of the Bigger,Louder, and Dumber trend of summer sci-fi blockbusters.

Whitworthian

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Gyrus — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:18:11 PDT

ID4 was the tipping point. Before then, Gattaca and other thoughtful sci-fi movies at least got made, even if they didn't do all that well. Now, for man people, the only way you can tell it's a sci-fi movie is if Will Smith is in it and something blows up real good. Everything since Independence Day has just made it worse.

Though seriously, someone needs to sit the Wakowski bros. down and give them some god damn Ritalin.

Gyrus

Which Big Summer Movie Ruined Science Fiction Forever?

Ghede — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:14:55 PDT

I have to go with star wars. I like the movies... hate the force. Hate.

That is all. No explanation.

Ghede