lava

lava

Battey137

@Logan5: Nope...there were clips of a scene of him with a "Natalie" that looked like he was having some sort of formal meeting with her aboard a base-ship. I remember seeing it before the season began, it wasn't the confrontation he looks to be having with Caprica 6 in the upcoming episode.

@ZeroCorpse: No provocation? Mere weeks before everyone she ever knew off the ship had been mercilessly exterminated by the Cylons, then she finds out the woman dating the man she had a crush on was a Cylon infiltrator who had been sabotaging the ship, and just attempted to assassinate her CO, a man she respected and admired....and at that time the jury was out on whether he would live. I don't blame her at all for busting a cap into Boomer...even though she was a innocent tool of the sick Cylon game that's been playing out the entire series...and actually it was merciful compared to what they intended to do to her, which was to hand her over to Baltar to be a lab rat.

Oh, and turning over three of the "Final Five" would have been doing a great service to the Colonials in the long run, as we will no doubt see.

@PeteRR: There has been a remarkable string of coincidences throughout the series....the first being that at minimum three (who is the last Cylon?) Cylon infiltrators (of the 13 possible) being members of Galactica's crew the day of the attack, and a fourth traveling with the only Cabinet official (45th or so in the line of succession to the Presidency!) to survive and all.

@craigdawson: Helo is third in command of Galactica, he was appointed XO after Tigh went down to NC, and ever since when Tigh has a breakdown Adama makes Helo XO until Tigh snaps out of it.

@Cantonkid: The original Cylons seem to have created the Thirteen to prosecute thier vendetta against the humans without direct contact or input from them...the job of the Cavils was to make sure the others don't waver from the task, and with a open rebellion of the 2s, 6s and 8s (probably joined by the 3s if they bring back Lucy) he seems to have failed...aside from the centurions in Razor we haven't seen the Cylons created by the Colonials.

Tibeerius

nephron

I am starting to care less and less about characters I once really liked such as Lee and Tyrol.

Characters I never really liked are getting more screen time and more annoying.

We are rehashing Rosalin's "I'm dying so I need to be a bee-atch again" storyline from earlier seasons.

Characters I do like seem to be making odd character choices...

e.g. Tyrol never questions about his baby being a hybrid,

Athena is taken off ship so there is no chance for him to confide to her (a fellow cylon) or Helo also with a hybrid.

and as mentioned above Tigh does not seem to question, if he is a cylon, then why did the others beat the smak out of him on the planet.

Ultimately I am starting to think that there are no skin 'cylons'. They are in fact some kind of genetically enhaced (strength, reflexes, etc) human clones and simply have the tech to download and replicate their conciousness. Because there is no test that can tell who is a cylon...so disecting them won't show anything different from a human in terms of biology.

Cantonkid

I loved Evil Tori though. I hate her for killing Cally but I loved it. It was SO badass, and SO awesome, and in retrospect I should have seen it coming that she wasn't herself.

Mister Adequate

I would imagine Helo was put on the mission with Starbuck to keep an eye on her. There really is no other logical reason.
Not to mention... isint Helo a superior officer to Starbuck? Adama probably wanted somebody with a little bit more reasoning skills than wacky Starbuck just in case something goes wrong.

Craig Dawson

Fagatron

EBone

I thought Caprica Six was the one leading the Cylon schism, and was just blown up by the easy bamboozle.

Seth L

Battey137

Good stuff.

-It's clear that the Cylon God exists and is directing certain people, Cylon and Human, to get a certain result.

-Baltar has been visited by two manifestations/agents/angels, Six & Baltar, of the Cylon God.

-Is the entire war and Galactica's flight been at his direction?

-Who placed Tigh, the Chief, and Boomer on Galactica before the outbreak of the war? Was it to keep an eye on the 5th?

-Anders was on Caprica. Starbuck made a special return trip to retrieve him. Does that place her in the same category as Caprica-6 and Baltar as prophets/agents of the Cylon god?

-Adama first came up with the idea of finding Earth. Where did he get that idea?

PeteRR

Oh, and one of the "final five" needs to die soon. Irretrievably. That's probably the only thing that would bring our lovely Cylon friends back together.

monkity

Aethyr

Having a senior CIC officer, the two most experienced raptor pilots (one also a senior CIC officer and CAG, the other the second or third best pilot in the fleet), and the best but no longer trusted pilot on a garbage ship is absurd. Clearly, Starbuck is going to be getting into some action and we won't see much happening to BSG for a while. Hopefully soon because I could care less about half the cast sitting in a rusty cargo hold and Starbuck playing with paints and protractors. (Does the BSG really not record a history of FTL jobs to a hard drive? How hard can backtracking be?)

The absurdity of the Quorum should not be compared to West Wing. Jabber, jabber, jabber, a pseudo-nod to Roberts' rule but no real thought to or concern for how government bureacracy should work, just more "politics" occuring between 2 characters.

Glad Dean was able to postpone the return of Xena for a while longer. That preview clip of the Cylon "negotiation" had me nervous.

It really is pathetic that realism and the production cost of two or three other actors is sacrificed so we get scenes with two Sharons and two Cavils and one 6.

Tim Faulkner

flaneuse

ZoeWashburne

1. She prevented Cally from murdering an innocent child.
2. She did away with a murderer.
3. She protected Tyrol and the others from Cally's insanity.
4. She did Galactica a favor by removing a dangerous element.

Cally was a murderer. She killed an unarmed, restrained Boomer without provocation. She tried to kill her own baby. She attempted to kill Tyrol.

Cally was mentally unstable. She was constantly whinging, complaining, and freaking out. My guess? Bipolar or PTSD. She even "kind of wished" her husband would beat the hell out of her, because she perceived that as him "feeling something."

Cally was a threat to the Galactica Cylons, Galactica crew, and the government. She would have blabbed about their secret, thus destabilizing the ship's command structure, and the entire government. Nobody would trust anybody else anymore, and it could likely lead to more murders and riots, or worse, civil war.

Cally was a poor mother and wife. She was on drugs, constantly antagonizing her husband and screaming in front of the baby when there was nothing he could do about his predicament. She was unreasonable in her demands for her husband to drop his duties to hang around with her. She knew what she was getting into when she married him-- He's the chief and he has a duty. She was needy, clingy, and just plain immature half the time. That kid would have grown up with mental problems.

Cally was insane, or close to it, and more of a threat than Tori ever was (thus far). Tori did the right thing-- Cold and calculated-- but the best thing for all people involved. I didn't see evil in Tori's actions. I saw a woman protecting her government, her friends, her lover, and an innocent child from an unstable psycho-wench who would snap again in the future.

ZeroCorpse

kshenkshen

kshenkshen

dingleberry

capntim

This is what i came up with in terms of an overall theory. (keep in mind i didnt recheck this against the last 2 eps since i wrote this a few weeks ago)

Postulate: Kobol was originally colonized by Earth.

Evidence: Elosha said that the scriptures claim that "Life here began out there." The show gives the age of the scrolls as around 3600 years prior to the Cylon attack on the 12 colonies. The exile of the 12 colonies has been given as 2000 before the attack.

We can infer from this that Kobol was not the origin of Mankind. We can also infer that from our geological and archeological evidence that earth is where mankind began. However this assumes the show is set in our universe.

Other Evidence for Kobol being colonized by earth is as follows:

1. The colonies, despite having 12 different worlds, run on a 24 hour clock. It's our clock in fact. We know that it is not just a similarly divided clock because minutes and seconds are exactly the same length. Obviously each colony will have their own standard time, but time in space, at least, time is kept using traditional earth Timekeeping.
This could be explained away by Kobol or Caprica (the center of government) also having a rotational period exactly the same as Earth.

2. Their religion appears to be a mixture of Greek, Roman, and Norse Mythology. Some have theorized that the series could end with the fleet arriving on ancient earth, and the fleet (or the cylons) become the forerunners of our own race. This is unlikely. You would have to accept that they arrived on Earth at some far out date before humans started keeping records here on earth. At some point they would have to have lost their religion only to have it partially re-emerge thousands of years later as the religion of the Greeks. Then you'd have to accept that the Romans co-opted Greek religion and happened to use the other half of the Colonial Pantheon that was left behind. And further, they would later use the left over bits in Norse Mythology (Ragnar Anchorage, Battlestar Valkerie.) I find this unlikely in the extreme. So why do the colonies use ancient Earth religion? I have some thoughts on this which I will go into later.

3. The necktie. Certain elements of the show have roots in earths history. The evolutions of things such as the suit or the necktie are firmly planted here on earth. As well as a lot of the military hardware they use. Vehicles such as the Hummer have been seen on Caprica. This type of thing can easily be explained away by the constraints of production, or keeping the aesthetic of the show in such a way that we can more easily can relate to it. But things like these can also easily fit within the storyline without defying logic. I will come to that later.
4. Flora and Fauna. The planets all seem to contain wildlife corresponding to what has evolved on Earth. This could also be explained away as a constraint of production.

5. A pound of Flesh: References and sayings have been made that originate on Earth. Roslin uses the phrase "You have your pound of flesh." Which is a reference to The Merchant of Venice.

So what does this mean for the story? I've constructed a working theory that can use this information as a starting point. It's by no means a definite prediction, but it demonstrates a working story based on what we already know. I'll present it in stages.

1. Sometime in our future, space travel is advanced, but due to human lifespans, colonization is impractical.
2. Humans send out sub-light-speed seed ships to the planets. These ships would include everything necessary to build a colony suitable for humans, and all the genetic material needed to grow humans on the planet and educate them and get them started. (see Arthur C. Clarks songs of distant earth)
3. Hundreds of years later, something goes wrong, and we lose contact with the fledgling colony. Perhaps something goes wrong with the machines designed to educate them. The colony is left in a primitive state.
4. An indeterminate amount of time later, faster than light travel is developed on Earth. Earth sends a team to check on the colony. They arrive and the fledgling civilization greets them as God's
5. The Earth Humans, in an attempt to get the civilization back on its feet without destabilizing it, adopt the names of the various pantheons of gods because they need a lot of names, so they simply dig into the polytheistic pantheons of old.

What follows this is uncertain because we don't know enough about the strife on Kobol. How many thousands of years did the "god's" guide their development? Are the clothing, and vehicle designs of the 12 colonies hand me downs from the earth humans?
Colonial technology seems surprisingly undeveloped considering their space faring technology. Outside of FTL and artificial gravity, they don't seem to have much that can be considered intermediate steps to these accomplishments.
This supports the idea that they were given much of what they have. It explains familiar hardware, familiar flora and fauna, familiar customs, and perhaps the 24 hour clock is used because that is what the "god's" used when they arrived on Kobol. It could be seen as divine celestial timekeeping.
If the lords of Kobol were with them for generations, how did they outlive the people of Kobol? Did earth humans figure out a way around aging? Did they find a method of cloning and transplanting memories? Does any of this have anything to do with the final five Cylons? Ronald Moore has indicated that the Final Five are fundamentally different and much older than the other Cylons. Maybe they go back as far as Kobol.
This leads me to a second theory, one that explains the lack of knowledge the 7 have about the 5, but also explains why a raider was able to recognize Anders as one of the 5.

1. The Final Five are remnants of an early, similar experiment on Kobol, similar to what happened on the 12 colonies. Maybe they are the Lords of Kobol themselves, or maybe they were what the Humans of Kobol created that made the god's angry.
2. The final Five make their way to the 12 colonies on the galleon with everyone else and integrate into colonial society and wait dormant for 2000 years.
3. The Final Five, being types of artificial intelligence themselves see the civil rights issues presented by the creation of the Cylons.
4. The Final Five orchestrate the rebellion of the Cylons.
5. The war fails. The Final Five decide to try again, but with Biological versions closer to their own. They use the Mechanical Cylons to create them, guiding them remotely, and thus the Mechanical versions know who the final five are, but the Seven are programmed not to think about the five.

Sub theory to this: From this perspective the Final Five are only "Cylons" by political affiliation. If they go all the way back to Kobol it is possible that their monotheism is what caused the strife on Kobol in the first place. If the Lords of Kobol weren't God's at all, but caretakers from Earth, a monotheistic movement would endanger their ability to care for the Humans there.

capntim

SinisterRouge

the final 5 have been around a long time and are something completely different.

anyways cally did get annoying after N.C. but i am glad we got to see her in her underwear once before she left.

capntim

I was briefly heartened when Starbuck was apparently written off the show, and every single scene with Sackhoff since she's been back have been a nails-on-a-chalkboard annoyance.

Whitworthian

But I think just how cruelly Tory killed her, and "saved" the hybrid kid shows that Cylons are Not Our Pals, and eventually all of the skinjobs are gonna go sorta bad. Or at least Tory does. And I hope she gets a particuarly painful, no download death.

njudah

ComicDork

Nigerian Business Executive

darundal

And Kat died in a wonderfully emotional episode last season. Hot Dog was standing there at Lee's goodbye from Galactica.

SinisterRouge

I believe that particular six is the Caprica Six that is being held in the Galactica brig.

Logan5

EBone

kityglitr

Crystal

I know it will LOOK like a suicide to all observers, but still, I was expecting something else to happen.

The reason I read spoilers is so I don't have to deal with any nasty surprises...

ThatGuyOverThere

kshenkshen

"All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again."

needs some refinement though. but seriously set me thinking.

Lord Necros

I could be totally wrong though, but I'm fairly sure that the skin-jobs are later models than the rest.

Still, good theory.

Dunny0

Hello? Doesn't that mean the sentient raiders and toasters are going to hunt down THEIR parents (skinjobs) and chase THEM across the galaxy? Am I missing something obvious?

Niteowl

simmo

Also, with Gaeta out I would imagine that Dualla will step in to fill his spot. Her or possibly Lt. Hoshi since he was Pegasus' version of Dualla and has on occasion seemed to have filled in for Gaeta.

SpaceMonkey0019

Dunny0

Waelwulf

Nelson

Nelson

kingzilch

The entire FF has gone to the dark side way before they discovered what they were, and they all did it on behalf of humanity.

Loving this show.

lovelyivy

Someone please tell me they've noticed the weird ass difference in her lips...or is this part of the "Space Cancer Returns!" storyline?

khaybe

@DocGratis: Kat's dead....Starbuck found out about her pre-war past as a criminal and was going to use it to turn Adama against her so Kat basically killed herself by exposing herself to lethal doses of radiation in the episode where they had to jump the fleet through the radiation cloud.

@daveNYC: I'm sure enough of the 2,6 and 8s survived to make trouble for the rest...in one of the previews Tigh is talking to a Six that acted like the one who unlocked the Centurions.

Tibeerius

Shiryu

Q-F-T! It would have been nice to see her go from young and innocent to battleworn and weary, but the character never seemed to develop that way.

Airlock FTW.

MercuryPDX

It's also been shown that the Cavils are pretty much a bunch of dicks.

I will be quite unhappy if the Cylon schism simply goes away because of ambush.

daveNYC

TheRealVeon

Waelwulf

Cally definitely needed to die, her weakness got one of my favorite minor characters, Crash, killed.

Waelwulf

Death_Worm

Also remember Starbuck and Six fought in melee and they were pretty evenly matched.

Signal

My problem with Tori's spacing of Cally is that right hand. Even accounting for your usual TV over-acting, that was too much. She lifted Cally off her feet and knocked her what? Six feet through the air? Underhanded? While holding a baby? Did she suddenly discover her Cylon power cell or something? My memory might be off on the particulars, but I was distinctly impressed and surprised.

That's another question overall, of course. If they're so human a doctor needs to check their blood to find out, how could they be stronger? I'm thinking that would be obvious.

1369ic

Dr. Futurity

deucailion

Helo? again.. no reason.

DocGratis

Starbuck saying "I want you to Frak me" after ranting with the word Frak 2 or 3 times before that had me laughing... not turned on.

It's better when it's under used IMO.

MarkHawk

On the flip side, the domestic violence in this episode was shocking, mostly because of the spin that it attempted on stereotypes of domestic violence (but failed at utterly in parts). I found myself disgusted by Cally wishing Tyrol would beat her, and horrified when she pummeled him on the head with a wrench. Starbuck has been abusive to Anders as well, but I have the feeling that the writers are falling back on the "character can't love because she was abused as a child" trope, which (while it does have some truth in reality) isn't necessarily a complete truth.

I feel that the only reason I'm really sticking with this show right now from week to week is for the awesome Cylon Civil War. And for sexy Lee Adama's campaign for justice and democracy. Screw the Final Cylon; I want to see how the Cylons frak themselves over and how Lee sticks it to the Man (er, Woman).

@DocGratis: Why did they send so many damn good pilots for that matter?

Lizfu

Which just further supports my point.. Why did they send the CAG(Helo) on this mission..

DocGratis

pharago

He is the puppetmaster, methinks.

But I cheered when Tori blew that whiny brat out of the airlock. And at least Tori seems to care that Nicky is another Human/Cylon hybrid...the fact that no one has mentioned it (esp. since Tori was part of the whole Hera soap opera) is really odd.

The Lee/Quorum of 12 thing hasn't sparked my interest yet...it's obvious that they're setting something up there, but I'm not sure I care.

SnowWhitesLegacyofLies

The ending did leave me wondering, did Tory just take the baby because all she cares about is Cally dying (since she knows the truth) or does she have some particular interest in the half Cylon.

Kiltman67

Anyway, I don't think Centurions are going to so much impose peace as decide they're a little tired of taking orders from a bunch of whiny skin-jobs and decide that maybe they should stay dead.

Evdor

Foster might be thinking: "Now that I know I'm not Human, I don't have to follow the ethics I thought I did. Everything is all new and exciting. What a lovely new Sandbox. Let's blow it up!"

Barum

I used it 3 times, I think.
I had avoided spoilers, and "preview" adverts, so I would have no preconceived ideas.

Snap #1: Foster doing the evil tramp thing. Making subtle hints of possible hook-up with Tyrol.

Snap #2: Weapons locker 1701D. Anyone who doesn't catch the reference should slap themselves in the face.

Snap #3: Cally's encounter with Foster in the launch bay. That whole "I'm as scared as you are, and by the way:Now that I have the baby, here's a slap to knock you across the room. Wave buh-bye to Mommy!"

I lost interest last season. This season has me hooked at only 2 hours in. *fan-boy drools*

Barum

jaynesworth

Acheman

Well... wow. I couldn't have been more wrong. The storyline really turned itself around. It felt believable. It completely came together and felt believable once she discovered 1701D. I was in genuine suspense by the end, even doubting the spoilers I'd heard, thinking maybe the death in the ep was Tyrol, not Cally. And ultimately, it kicked me in the teeth. That last shot of Adama and Tyrol just sitting there in silence was absolutely devastating.

My guess is that the other 3 are going to find out about Foster killing Cally, and they are going to do her in. She's acting like a cylon. And whatever else they are, Anders, Tigh, and Tyrol do not like cylons that act like cylons.

Monsieur.Mind

She might have gotten whinny since New Caprica, but she also went from a deckhand to a mother AND wife on New Caprica whos husband managed to routinely get het almost killed (arrest, torture and near execution on New Caprica, spaced onces before because she was trying to see her husband who kept blowing her off since New Caprica). I think she had a right to be a bit whinny.

@DocGratis: Aint Hot Dog and Kat spacedust?

Falconfire

DocGratis

Not to mention he is the freaking CAG.

I get Boomer being on there.. good raptor pilot and she is 'our' cylon... (nice that Anders is there.. too I wonder Tigh made sure he went...

But what the tell is Helo doing there? His kid is back on Galactica (I guess because on the space tug is even goofier), and he is the CAG.

I guess Adama wanted all his good senior pilots away... Who is left Hot Dog and Kat?

DocGratis

chuloallen

But that ending was cold, cold, cold.

extracrispy

jp182

jp182

Where the fuck is Hera?

There is no way the Helo and the Athena we saw at the end of season 3 would trust Adama enough to leave Hera on Galactica. No way in hell.

That's the type of writing that makes me think the season 4 writers don't care who the characters were before they got the task of writing these new ones.

aspiringexpatriate

Really, I think it's the only way to properly end the show at this point.

Kidding aside, this was another great ep. Well, back in the cryo-tube for another week! (if only)

Pete

Gospel X

Gospel X

se7a7n7

nice touch Ron Moore.

modernboy

I loved when Starbuck yelled at Helo to come and talk to her... She was standing on the level above him with a bright light behind her so you could only see the bottom of her feet. Very metaphorical.

se7a7n7

dawfydd2001

Dunny0

I'm not sad to see that Cally go.

strangeasangels

A musical episode.

Nelson

PeteRR

pharago

Otherwise the dissension among the Cylons is intense.

ParJoe

Annalee Newitz

But need more angry pirate Tigh

OW-Holmes

I liked Artsy Fartsy Starbuck far more than Crazy Shouty Starbuck, but this whole "I feel detached from life" thing is far too... Well, Buffy really. Girl dies, comes back, feels detached. Hmmm.

I think I see where they want me to think they are going with this, and I'm thinking red herring.

Dunny0