It was like a classic Doctor Who story -- alien plot, misguided human helper person, the Doctor knows more than everyone else and gets to be clever and do things (unlike last year's gollum-in-a-birdcage stuff), UNIT is helpful but dim, etc.

So maybe that's not original, but at least it's not dull, like Ood-world, or a pile of shtick, like certain other episodes.

And it is a two-parter, thank god. I just don't like the way a one-hour story gets resolved so terribly quickly.

I understand the "fresh camp" position, I just don't really find it to my taste.

mcpm

draconismoi

Jack

@Jack: The deadlock just seems to protect against overriding the Atmos's control. It making glass impervious would be like a virus that takes over your machine which not only makes it impossible to remove, but also makes your tower impervious to sledgehammers.

Tiber

@draconismoi: Martha was awesome in her first episode on Torchwood, but I thought the writers kinda nerfed her in the next two. "It's all about Owen" -- but I don't care about Owen, Martha's right there, she could be awesome, and you're not doing anything with her!

kevinr

Sure, he tried the handle and the button, but did he try the little knob thing?

Now that I think of it, does anyone ever try to just pull up anymore? Hmmm...

Dunny0, ELE Hopeful

Lizzie24601

@SeeingI: Maybe that's why they are skulking about and wearing those huge helmets: Shame.

@Ryan H: Well, it wasn't random as such. The Doctor did ask if it was programmed to ignore what he said, and it agreed. So, he told it to do what it was already doing - if it did that, it would be doing what he said, but if it didn't do that it would be countering it's programming. Granted, a real computer would probably just BlueScreen at this kind of user input, this system seemed a bit "smarter" and, as such, had itself a quiet little nervous breakdown.

Also, it's just a show you should really just relax. ;)

Dunny0, ELE Hopeful

The thing that irked me as an episode here is that there seemed to be no motivation for the attack on Earth expounded. Perhaps it's been explained in past episodes why the Sontarans have it out for Earth, but I don't know it.

Also, I love that it's the 10th Sontaran Fleet versus the 10th Doctor.

Bonus points to this episode for no married couple Donna/Doctor references.

Minus points to this episode for having two incredibly hot UNIT soldiers and no Capt. Jack to lust over them.

Jack

Also, this is the second time this season I have been yelling at the screen for them to smash the window with a rock. First time was when they were hanging from the building in the first episode.

This whole dead-lock thing has got to go. As an occasional unexpected problem it was fine. But these days every second lock and door has them. If the creative team wants to get rid of the sonic screwdriver, fair enough. But keeping at around while making it useless is the cowards way out.

Ryan H

@Tiber: I was also thinking how very un-Sontaran this kind of sneak-attack was, but then again, even with nukes Earth could not put up much of a defense against Sontaran battle-tech. So it's a pretty one-sided fight either way. And as the Doctor says in the preview, "They need the gas for something else!" Cue ominous chords.

SeeingI

I just wanted to know why they didn't throw a brick at the window.

Dunny0, ELE Hopeful

@Lizzie24601: (re: gun) Agreed.

@volve: (re: brick) That annoyed me too. What, no bricks just lying around Chiswick suburbs? If not, there's bound to be the odd rock! (However, it was a bit nifty how the sonic screwdriver failed for a change, with General Staal ragging on inferior sonic technology.)

@IntoAshes: Christopher Ryan was great, I didn't actually realize it was him until you pointed it out!

jbq

And yes I know that the whole point of the sonic screwdriver is to do anything unless its too plot-convenient and would ruin the tension, but the whole "locked out" part felt forced. The confusing it to death solution was stupid, especially when the device said it was programmed to ignore his orders. If you ignore something, you act as if you never saw or heard it. That is not the same as doing the opposite of what someone says.
My slightly better (but still far from perfect) solution would be to mess with the device's priorities. For instance, trick the device into thinking it is about to hit an old lady crossing the street. It has no orders to kill the old lady, and unless explicitly ordered to, it would be programmed to avoid doing that at all costs. Okay, the idea sucks, but not as badly as destroying it with a paradox. Or just open up a panel under the steering wheel and cause as much damage as possible. Anything but what they went with.

Lastly, when the old man was suffocating in the car, was I the only one who thought, "can't the sonic screwdriver shatter glass?"

Tiber

That said: A clone could have a beard or even slightly different teeth. Both are just developmental, not really a genetic thing. But, yeah... Not so much with freckles.

@Lizzie24601: Yeah, I tried to come up with something witty involving gambling, booze and strippers...
Next time I'll be prepared.

Dunny0, ELE Hopeful

Lizzie24601

SeeingI

I think this is another example of this script cobbling together a lot of Stuff
That Worked Before. And yet, enough of it worked again that I still liked it.

Lizzie24601

I'm not going to wade into the gun thing, other than to say I can totally understand his aversion to them, and those that hide behind them.

@Lizzie24601: It's a boring answer, but the ground is too bloody awful hard it's just not cost effective. Something to do with general makeup of the ground, something called "caleche", although I'm unsure of the spelling.
Yeah, not all that exciting. But we do have Star Wars and Pong slot machines, so I suppose it evens out.

@Katana_Mind: We're very big on recycling, what can I say?

Dunny0, ELE Hopeful

Regarding the Sontarans and womenfolk - it's never explicitly said that the Sontarans have no concept of gender - perhaps Sontaran females look nearly the same? And Lynx's confusion over Sarah's thorax was in the 13th Century. No doubt they know a bit more about humans now. These guys have been around a LONG time, even allowing for their limited excursions into time-travel technology.

The gun thing - there is a huge debate raging on Outpost Gallifrey about the Doctor's hypocrisy on this point. I agree, it was over the top for somebody who's committed genocide in the past. And how are the people of Earth SUPPOSED to defend ourselves against alien threats? With a teaspoon and an open mind? I think its part and parcel of the UK's overly-strict gun laws and the BBC's general nanny-state ethos.

SeeingI

@kevinr: I was a little worried about Martha coming back. She has all that potential last year that only really showed in the Master episodes. You're a brilliant capable woman! Stop undermining yourself! Her Torchwood appearances proved to me that that was all weak writing and Martha could be awesome too. Which she was. Until we got to the damn evil twin wimpy part. The last time Martha was tied down for an alien experiment she handled it much better. Perhaps the writers could improve with a little character continuity?

draconismoi

SerafinoCaba?ero

@Dunny0: Alright I'll bite. Why are there no basements in Las Vegas?

Lizzie24601

Katana_Mind

Also, could the writers pleeeease give Martha something to do besides be captured and then rescued? She's too fucking smart to be just a damsel-in-distress. Don't tell me that the woman who evaded the Master's goons for a year while circumnavigating the globe doesn't know enough not to go into an unmarked room in the basement of a sketchy research laboratory without backup. (Or that someone who is trained as a medical doctor would scream and flail ineffectually when an animated gauntlet attaches itself to her face, for that matter.) I just don't buy it. And an evil twin plot? Really?! GAAAAH. The writers can come up with something better.

...Though maybe that's the problem. Martha is so smart that using her to her full potential risks stealing the spotlight from the Doctor and Donna. If that's what the writers are thinking, and thus why they effectively write her out, that's bloody annoying. Otherwise all I can think is that they're just not very competent at writing smart female characters.

kevinr

Charlie Jane Anders

Martha was relegated to looking a bit smug/terrified for the second half and there was no Brigadier Lethbridge Stewart but, other than that, I thought it was great.

I'd go with Maddrjeffe's point about the new format improving the pacing of the show - some of the old serials are a cure for insomnia at times when extended to 2 hours over 4 episodes.

Discodave

The somewhat negative tone of the recap, I thought, was done not out of whininess, but because you generally expect more out of this great show. Maybe I'm wrong, but I get that from the majority of io9's articles: It's not all rainbows and unicorns, but the most fun thing about being a SciFi nerd is arguing over the minutia and discussing differing viewpoints on things.

And now I'm ranting and sounding like some kind of crazed fanbot, so I'll just go back to lurking in my basement... Well, I would if I didn't live in Las Vegas.

True fact: there aren't any basements in Vegas.

Dunny0, ELE Hopeful

Charlie Jane Anders

Charlie Jane Anders

Dunny0, ELE Hopeful

scotto

And I love Martha... but Donna is growing on me fast.

ComicDork

Ryan H

I think if I ever saw a positive or upbeat story on this site I'd probably die of shock.

FoolsRun

Charlie Jane Anders

I agree that the formula is becoming a wee bit stale. So let's all be grateful that New Who is taking a break and returning in 2010. Besides, every hardcore Who fan hates Russell T. Davies rendition of Doctor Who, anyway.

Spacehamster

But it was good because of the character moments. The three principles (Doctor, Martha and Donna) really sold some good scenes. Personally, I loved the "don't I get a salute?" bit. That's what you get when you treat the Doctor's companions like an extra appendage.

Where it falls apart are the plot points. And I can't help but blame the writer. I feel like she doesn't have a firm enough grasp on some of the concepts she is using to make them fit the way she wants. Sort of like the Dalek episode where the Daleks fit the plot instead of the plot calling for Daleks.

Ryan H

There were just so many great moments, outside the "actual plot." Donna piloting the tardis, donna and martha's meeting, the doctor and genius boy, the un-exploding car - all top notch.

And I usually enjoy Lawrence Miles' reviews but this one was just annoying.

Lizzie24601

You're bang on when it comes to this week being formulaic. And it is fairly continuity heavy, sure - but not so much that it bogs things down. Personally, I haven't seen a previous Sontaran episode, so they were fairly new to me (I did read about them in "The Infinity Doctors", which happens to be my favorite of the Doctor Who novel line...), but I can appreciate where you're coming from.

I think the main failing point of this episode was the total misuse of established characters. As you pointed out Helen Raynor is pretty darn good at taking something that's been established, then going a full 180 from it. I'm wondering if maybe she's just too lazy to come up with her own aliens for these episodes, or maybe is working under the misapprehension that established races might need some "growth"... and each time somehow manages to neuter them in the process.

I did like the non-exploding car, thought that was kind of funny, and really enjoyed seeing Donna getting her driving lessons. I think that the reason Martha didn't go too into "The Year That Never Was" was probably because she didn't want to scare Donna off - just warn her.

Either that or Helen is just a crap writer.

Maybe my expectations where just lowered after last week.

Dunny0, ELE Hopeful

Charlie Jane Anders

modernboy

I kind of liked the humans are bad guys thing going on in the ood episode myself. Not a bad formula there.

Maddrjeffe

Cantonkid

It really comes down to the actual plot at hand. Both shows have been over mining the "alien threat" territory. At a certain point, the constant anti-up in terms of stakes and spectacle lose their potency. There are plenty of plots that they can do. Ghost Light is a great example - a haunted house scenario extrapolated with dark thematic content. There needs to be greater drama and tragedy contained within the Threat.

I'd really love to see them return to the Troughton formula again - the isolated group of humans threatned by insurmountable alien menace. What that does is place the alien villains farther out from the drama, being more of a less-seen catalyst, and allows the story to focus on the weaknesses of the humans under attack.

Justin K. Rivers

Cantonkid

I can't really agree with you on this point CJA. Personally I have had enough with the female companions giving jealous looks initially and then quickly becoming buddy buddy in an sort of ex-companions club way.

While I do agree that the Sontaran plot was not entirely engaging, I was at least entertained enough to want to know where it is going and I felt is was far better than the Pompeii episode....

with the exception of Sergey's character trying to 'fit in' by joining the Sontar war chant....for me that part was just painful.

One thing that has me confused though, is that I don't really understand the 'jurisdiction' of UNIT over Torchwood. I kept wondering, why they would not be called in for something like this. (If anyone can explain it, I would greatly appreciate it).

Cantonkid

And why, at the end when poor Granpa Wilf is almost being killed-but-almost-certainly-will-make-a-full-recovery-later part doesn't someone JUST GRAB A BRICK?! Are you telling me that the glorious little Deux Ex Machina of the sonic screwdriver can't break 21st-century Earth glass? Really??!

volve

Yeah, its formulaic, but the question is does Torchwood make it more so?

Maddrjeffe

I love the show, but as sci-fi its so full of holes that I have to constantly say to myself... Just a show.

And that's why I love it. I just re-watched my favourite episode from the Tom Baker years this weekend, The Horror of Fang Rock and in just about every way except maybe Tom Baker its been superior. And Baker only made it better because he was such a pompous ass.

The biggest win the new series has on the old is format, 1 hour long show instead of 4-6 30 minute shows with 10 minutes of recap. Really an episode of the other series was like paint drying.

Yeah the Sontarans are a bit of weak tea, but thank goodness they aren't the Dalaks again, or Cybermen I don't think I could have taken that again so soon.

besides, ... Badguy dance off! Thats cool right?

Maddrjeffe

We know the Sontarans don't conquer Earth or do whatever they do. And if they did, there would just be a big ol' reset button to put things back into place.

This episode shows the strains of confining the Doctor to Earth. Much in the same way that the Pertwee years did after a time. It's also worth noting that Pertwee's production team eventually ended the exile on Earth when they felt that they had used up the potential.

Justin K. Rivers

IntoAshes

RagingTowers