<![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction - io9 Comments]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction - io9 Comments]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> This is my introduction to your magazine. Companies pay you for advertising? I've been reading SF for over 40 years... and that is simply the dumbest article I've ever seen in an SF publication, pro or fanzine. While there have been many attempts to pour "true" SF into the mold of a narrow minded jackass, of all the attempts I've seen, you've worked hardest to take *all* the fun out of SF. If you were to get what you asked for, SF would be the exclusive domain of the vanishingly small group of SF readers who read SF for its literary value and its even smaller crowd of academic critics. And you might wind up having to do what Heinlein calls "honest work" for living, shoveling another kind of shit. Though at least that version has value for fertilizing plants.

And guys like Cory Doctorow and Charlie Stross would find something else to call the genre they write in, because an SF label would mean "commercially nonviable".

SF is rightly called "the literature of ideas". I could get better ideas from rereading Eye of Argon. Or reading the considerably worse swill of Jim Theiss's spiritual heir, Nickolaus Pacione.

Thanks for wasting 2 minutes of my life I'll never get back... and I won't be coming back to your site.

alizard

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Speaking poorly of Angelina, Buffy and retro-future all in the same post?
The horror, the horror!

Numerous

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @X: The Eliminator: We actually featured that video on io9 a month or so back, in our roundup of the best dance sequences from science fiction! [io9.com]

Charlie Jane Anders

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> 13. Punk is campy. Maybe it wasn't in the 1960s, or whenever you guys invented it, but it is now. Sorry. That goes for regular punk (just watch Doomsday) as well as cyberpunk (watch the Matrix sequels) and definitely steampunk. Steampunk is camp-tastic.

I'd like to go ahead and disagree with that.

I seriously believe that William Gibson had some sort of (accurate) vision of the future.

Imagine what the punks of the 70s would think of the "hackers" today.

Not only that, but I also think that steampunk is cool.

A great platform for this idea would have been Journey to the Center of the Earth.

But this newest Eric Brevig version will suck shit.

[www.jonathanbriggs.com]

Simon Piper

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Freddie Freelance: the best thing, THE BEST THING i have seen allll week.
the very definition of 'funnest'. ;)

X: The Eliminator

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @wordweaverlynn: That Wanted will be "Wanted", its implied repitition.

DaiMacculate

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Angelina Jolie is the reason that Wanted will be -- what? If there's an end to that sentence, it isn't showing on my browser.

wordweaverlynn

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> No SF websites with cheesy cutesy pink logos and icons?

Blue Tyson

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Personally, I think the campier the sci-fi, the better. But then again, I loved "Flash Gordon" and "Clash of the Titans."

bonniegrrl

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Jack: Y'know I realized that error about half an hour later sitting at my local pub.
"Dam ewe, Otto spell Czech!!"
But yeah, a flowing spring of theobromos? I'll take it.

Grey_Area

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Hes-Dead-Jim: I agree! Especially when those planets have all sorts of Earth-like features (the appropriate amount of oxygen, temperatures humans can survive in) it doesn't seem realistic that the climate would be so stubbornly singular.

liash

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> On monoculture: lots of members of "mainstream" society already assume that they're the only type of people that exist. It isn't unique to the future. But how complicated would every story have to be if every planet had hundreds of minorities? It makes sense sometimes, but not every time.

liash

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> An addendum to #8: In general, alien planets should have more than one type of climate. What's with all the "ice planets," "desert planets," "forest moons," and "jungle planets"?

Hes-Dead-Jim

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> As questioned above, Where are all of these screencaps from?

#1 I have no idea where these lovely ladies are from

#2 Melody Anderson as Dale Arden from "Flash Gordon"

#3 I do not recognize the scene, but the woman is fierce.

#4 Sting as Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen from "Dune"

#5 Where is this trio from (other than obviously early to mid 1980s')?

#6 "This Island Earth"? but the aliens in that film weren't blue.

#7 Dale Arden again.

#8 Sam Jones as Flash Gordon [as a young gay teeneager Sam Jones was the first actor whose naked pics I had seen. I remember them being very nice indeed. ] Those red hot pats do Ornella Muti (Princess Aura) no favors.

#9 Is this final pic from "This Island Earth"?

I'm Waitin' for Dolemite

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Cantonkid:

Oh god, OH GOD. DO NOT WANT (I'll probably fucking watch it anyways).

Also, he forgot the fact that a large number of camp comes from EVERY single alien race speaking English. Stargate always bothered me in this respect.

Demosthenes7898

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @jamescole: Thanks for the Space Lords, well worth the watch. Who's the actress that plays the love interest. She looks familiar, like I've seen her in other things.

Darkweave

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> I don't get it - I thought io9 loved camp?

Is there some sort of rebellion in progress, or something?
-Kle.

Klebert L. Hall

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> #13 - so, in a movie version of The Difference Engine, the steampunkishness [find that in yo' dictionary] would "[stand] in the way of telling [an] amazing [tale] about the impact of technology on humans."

Grib

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Freddie Freelance:

How I lived my entire life without hitherto seeing this awesomeness is beyond all ken.

I'm Waitin' for Dolemite

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> This article has taught me a lot, mainly that I have been operating under a completely false definition of campiness, Now excuse me while I go find a dictionary, or that '64 essay on camp.

Ghede

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Zantor: The great thing about Sky Captain is that it was a throw-back to the retro look made by pushing our current movie-making technology to the limits.

@Grey_Area: Ok, I realize that you probably meant "artisanal" but I just laughed at the idea of a flowing spring ("artesian") of baconated chocolate.

Jack

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> very well written article. great job. the screen pics made it even funnier.

how about identifying camp thats in modern movies though?

causeiambetta

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> 4. Rock music silliness is forever.
5. Adults already say things that sound stupid to their parents' generation.

hitmouse

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> The day I am tired of looking at Angelina Jolie is the day I am tired of living.

Besides, it's ironic that io9 is coming down on "camp in science fiction" considering its love for Doctor Who and Flash Gordon.

edosan

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> What are all those screen caps from??? I really want to see whatever it is!!!

AtomikB

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Now can we please have a list on how to bring the fantasy aspect BACK to science fiction? I really don't have time to wade through hours of poorly-written and weepy character interaction à la Gilmore Girls -- I want realistic giant robots and lizards fighting, dammit.

mariospants

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Log1c: Hard SF isn't based on today's tech. It's based on tech that could actually exist sometime in the future, based on known scientific principles.

phoghat

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> I don't know if I agree with the statement about Heinlein's tendency to philosophize...I wonder if you've read the full breadth of his works if you think thats such a defining characteristic. Much less prominent in his earlier stuff, more a product of his post Stranger in a Strange Land craziness.

I won't go further in defining craziness, if you've read To Sail Beyond The Sunset you know what I'm talking about :P

Of course then you had to mention how over the top the fascist propoganda was in the movie version of Starship Troopers...still one of the greatest manglings of a sci-fi work from book to movie ever, and yes that is quite a statement.

In general though I agree with most of these points ;)

DaiMacculate

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Slatz_Grobnik: "Even calling the pursuit of monoculture monstrous implies a value judgment about it."

No implication at all, in fact. I was absolutely making a value judgment.

Balius

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Balius:
Even calling the pursuit of monoculture monstrous implies a value judgment about it. For all we know, an alien race would not care about cultural diversity in the least. Considering how late we are to prize it, and how it's only a slim subset of the world's population that does, it's not outrageous to think that the idea would never come up.

Besides, give it a few tweaks of the sociobiology and you can imagine aliens that just don't consider it as a thought, either because it's so obviously a vice to them or because personal diversity is allowed to the nth degree, so that a notion of permissive cultural diversity still sounds slavish.

Admittedly, with aliens being alien, it's certainly likely that actually understanding the nuance in alien cultures are will be next to impossible for many years.

I mean, imagine the alien reaction of "and, weirdly, all their belief systems are obsessed with Gods - even the ones that don't believe in one are preoccupied with their absence." It completely misses the diversity, but if aliens are that alien, we would both do the same to one another for a damn long time.

Slatz_Grobnik

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Theoban: That's all good and well, but find a way to present multiple viewpoints in a single movie or episode. In most cases, there simply isn't time to present alternate viewpoints in a script like that...especially when you need to make every moment count. In a movie this is particularly important. You have a point that a TV series should make a more concerted effort OVER TIME, but that's a failing of the head writer in not making the writing staff diversify somewhat. Also, there has to be a meaningful reason to present that viewpoint; surely there are some Ferengi who don't hold tightly or at all to the rules of acquisition...but there's no good dramatic reason to meet them unless they bring out a specific story. DS9, B5 and BSG all have had instances of presenting races with multiple cultural viewpoints and differing religions...when they felt it was worth following. But at the same time, they simplified when it was necessary. In B5, JMS was quite emphatic that there were other viewpoints than the those some of the main races put forth...but that there really wasn't a lot to be gained by highlighting them; it didn't enhance the story he was trying to tell.

Most SF is not about aliens, it's about exploring the human condition by contrasting it with something outside our experience and then looking in the mirror. The TOS Klingons were stand-ins for the Russians; DS9 had as much to do with the Middle East as it did with Cardassia; BSG reflects 9/11 and Iraq as much as it does Caprica.

WizarDru

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Half the stuff on this list is due entirely to outdated trends--all the fashion and style choices were silly but part of the time period in which the stories were written. Sure, it's not that imaginative, but sometimes these tropes can be used to great effect. I'll listen to Mal tell me how he aims to misbehave all day long.

Gyrus

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> I don't want to join in a chorus of haters, but seriously, #4? "Rock music can't possibly get any stranger"? I will argue that when rock music ceases to constantly become stranger than it currently is, then it isn't rock music anymore!

I will agree that rock music in SF is frequently done in a horrific style, but that's a different thing. That's usually an attempt to take bad current music and make is 'scifi-ish' by adding boops, beeps and sparkly bits. Music from the future should make you cringe from it's alieness, which is actually a good reason to not try and use it in something that is supposed to be entertaining...

schwap23

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Oh gosh yes, let's make all science fiction into stodgy, self involved pseudo-serious dreck. Let's not be able to laugh at ourselves as we ply our fantasy worlds. Bring on the purity tests. Dress us in the business casuals of tomorrow for we just can't get over ourselves and how very important we surely must be. Face it, science fiction has always had a funny bone, a couple of silly joints and a few plain dorky outfits to wear to the galacta-prom. Darker and grittier is nice when appropriate but really, there are more colours in the crayon box. And while the rest of us are snickering, you're welcome to vote with your feet.

lazlopink

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Theoban: While humanity doesn't have a single school of thought, it could have. While India and China are rapidly breaching (and even surpassing) the divide, for most of the modern era it was countries with almost exclusively Judeo-Christian roots that had all the technology. Had the advanced nations united under that common belief system and actively destroyed or assimilated other doctrines using that technology breach to create military superiority, it would have potentially become a much less diverse planet, and even if other viewpoints were never wiped out entirely, those people who act in ways dissimilar to the rampant majority would not be expected to rise very high socially.

Had such a thing happened, it wouldn't be difficult to imagine that the most affluent would go carting around the galaxy, while those unable to climb financially and socially would remain nearer to their places of birth. Our representation to a multi-species council, in that case, would almost certainly all be familiar with the Bible.

If more of the most powerful nations had allied themselves with the Third Reich, and nazis claimed dominion, you'd better believe humanity would have become more homogeneous. What was the Holocaust, if not a push toward a singular viewpoint?

I'm personally glad that the Crusades took place when travel and weather were real concerns, and that in-fighting kept Catholicism from absorbing the planet, and that the human race is not so cold-hearted that it would exterminate its way across the planet to preserve the dominant culture's beliefs.

But humans HAVE tried, monstrously, to do just that, so the idea that other, alien, races would necessarily never have encountered the same ludicrous goal is ridiculous. If humans could, why not other species?

@Dillenger69: I, obviously, celebrate diversity more than homogeny. The only reason I can see humanity becoming a single culture is war. Either the aforementioned conquest, or unifying against an alien race.

Balius

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> I wish Tarkovsky was still around.

DigitalVersicolor

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> I've always considered mono-cultures to be the pinnacle of civilization. I figure that by the time we can get our act together enough to make it to the stars we'll be a nicely monolithic one world culture. At least that's the excuse I give myself when every civilization in Sci-Fi but ours is a mono-culture.

Dillenger69

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Freddie Freelance: That's not camp. That is what we call necessary alternative battle footage.

Priam

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> These complaints exceed the bounds of camp and slide into general complaints about...anything, really. This list is all over the place like a DUI in a car with an alignment problem on a crooked road.

Furthermore, why? Why rail against camp? Is there some great camp threat? Do the armies of camp stand posed to oust all the good sci-fi out there? No, strangely, most of the sci-fi out there has some camp to it, or at least one man's #5 is another man's smeg.

No, change that, #5 is ridiculous. There's such a thing as a realistic neologism? It's realistic neologisms that I distrust the most, because language is far too weird.

And, really, the point is that all this has a place - an important place - in the world of SF. It's the same argument every time: what did we all start on? Sure, one in a hundred picked up The Moon is a Harsh Mistress at age nine and discovered the wonder that is SF, but most of us came to the good stuff through the campy sholck that opened our eyes to the idea.

Slatz_Grobnik

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Re: Go-Go Boots, you can't beat Raquel Welch doing the SciFo Go-Go Girl thing:

+ Watch video

Freddie Freelance

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> I fundamentally opposed to this rule:

> No more Angelina Jolie.

So much so that it may be boycott worthy!

darcymcgee

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> I love how this list is so long. It's not Five Ways, or 10 Ways -- no, it takes 21 whole Ways to clean up all that camp!

Also: "Robotic urine just should not be part of our lexicon at all."

Um, I didn't know it was? *trauma*

bluewyvern

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @donkeyjote: To be honest, the Ferengi were main characters in DS9. Even the bar was a main character. Quark's pub was the hub of non Federation action and business on the promenade. It provided villians and foils for the Good guys of the Federation. As far as the Ferengi being main characters, are you crazy? There were always 5-6 Ferengi/Ferenginar specific episodes a season. Quark was a main character the whole time. Rom and his son Nog became main characters during the Dominion wars.

Priam

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> No Xander? I love Xander! And Shiny is, well, SHINY!

Rusty626

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @helenanapier: You make an excellent point. Frak.
Then again some expletives do not arise from sudden outbursts but instead are carefully crafted like artesianal baconated chocolate. For example:

"Commander, you sir are a knuckle-dragging backbirth addicted to smoking tampons soaked in the rankest felgercarb. Get thee to an airlock posthaste!"

Sometimes the monosyllabic just isn't enough.

Grey_Area

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Arrgh! Comment not showing. Frak. Frelling Dren.

helenanapier

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Look, try not to ruin it for the rest of us who have inexplicable robot-watersport fetishes, okay?

Liz Henry

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Grey_Area: The problem with felgercarb is just that obscene words tend to be one syllable or two short, crisp ones. It sounds gross, but it's sort of like saying "goat slime." It doesn't have force to it exactly. Jam your finger in a Viper door and you aren't going to shout felgercarb spontaneously.

helenanapier

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Garrison Dean, King Awesome: No Zul? What about CthZULu?

donkeyjote

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Theoban: What you have to consider is that we are such a diverse group because we only have ourselves to compare to. Given a couple of hundred of years/generations as "Humans vs Aliens" instead of "Humans vs Humans" and it will boil down to one major viewpoint in life.

And same goes for the Ferengi. The Rules of Acquisition is the major viewpoint because it has been around for so long, every other viewpoint has been erased. Look at Catholicism, 95% of the South American Population follow it, and it's only been around for 2000 years (with South america for 800). Or look at the US and Democracy/Capitalism. Any talk of anything other then those two is dismissed, and Demo/Cap are pushed upon others. Given a couple of 100 generations, Demo/Cap will become the human viewpoint, with all others ignored.

Out of all of these rules, number 9 is the most plausible, for a civilization to rally behind one philosophy.

And from a tv stance, the reason we only see that aspect of Ferengi's is screentime and conformity. No major characters where Ferengi's, and the characters that were fit in with the established notion (Quark, raised Ferengi) while Quark's son was more human (Raised in the Federation), and his brother an inbetween (Loyal, but moral). Compare the collective Ferengi screentime to that of Humans or Cardasians or Vulcans.

donkeyjote

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Log1c: There, there... these things happen.
@Zantor: I agree, "felgercarb" is a perfectly cromulent word. It's sounds like something horrible that has to be cleaned out of the water reclamation system or whatnot.

Grey_Area

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @MrBabyMan: Ah, I'm so glad I'm not the only one familiar with "actual actual actual vampires." Glee.

flaneuse

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Grey_Area: Damnit! You beat me...
@helenanapier: I think it works well for TV shows because then a character who would actually swear can, and it doesn't sound stupid. For movies its a hit or miss because just bump that son of a bitch up to an R and call it a day!

Log1c

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> I've never had a problem with Jolie on-screen. I actually enjoyed the Tomb Raider films.

That said, I do agree with a lot of these points. I just want to see more thought-provoking, exciting, engaging sci-fi, and less cheap-cash-in, campy garbage. It's almost enough to get me follow that dream of becoming a sci-fi writer...

Though I can't help but think that io9's darling, the recently deceased Flash Gordon series, was a huge, embarrassing step back for the genre. And sometimes I question whether Doctor Who is really worth it all. I'll save you the trouble and stone myself for that thought.

Sharpless

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Charlie Jane Anders: If only Gaius and his "Cyclon" (er, thank you Gawker ian for that one) monotheists would shut up. Then we could get over that arrow of Apollo bullshit from seasosns 2-3, and also Jesus Thrace and Her Special Destiny.

Plus since when are Cylons triggered by weird ass electronica Dylan remixes?!?!?!

helenanapier

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Speaking of BSG...
Why don't they ever say "Felgercarb" like they used to?
They use "Frak" enough.



Zantor

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Excepting 8 and 9, I vote no on removing campiness from all of sci-fi. (And even then, breaking rules 8 ad 9 can be fun, when consciously done and for a purpose.)Camp is fun, entertaining, and can make a dull movie more memorable. (I wouldn't remember anything from Van Helsing if my dad hadn't pointed out the opera singer screeching "Van Helsing" during all the dramatic moments.) Camp can also be intellectually challenging.

There's room for campy and non-campy sci-fi films alike. So, keep the camp!

napthia9

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Cantonkid:

It's like "Somewhere in time" meets... Aw Hell, who knows what!

Perhaps some machine with temporal-flux emissions that encounters modest but lightly suggestive dancing girls!

"I am thinking you should be dancing now, yes."

Zantor

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @gfburke: Actually, no... BSG violates at least one or two of these rules. It has the campy religious stuff, for one thing.

Charlie Jane Anders

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Grey_Area: I liked "shiny" in Firefly, as I like "frak" in BSG. You just have to do it right somehow...

The fact that I can't take my steampunk-disco-pajama-time capsule back to 1970's NYC to kneel at the Altar of Sontag and recite the last sentence of Against Interpretation in a strange, monolithic accent makes me sad though.

helenanapier

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> So basically, this post can be summed up as "Stupid sci-fi! Be more like BSG!"

gfburke

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> So many rules...I hope there isn't a quiz on this tomorrow...

It won't help of course. The problem with tasteless idiots is that they don't know that they're tasteless idiots. Hell, I'm complaining about them; and I could be a tasteless idiot myself...
Although I am wondering about it. I don't think a true tasteless idiot would do that.

russdanger

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @jamescole

You could probably bet that "Love Story 2050" will break every rule up there actually.

And still be very entertaining because it will be totally wacko.

dOk

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> As long as science fiction is made by Hollywood idiots who don't have a clue as to what it is (or any semblance of taste or intelligence), everything on this list will appear again and again and again and ....

bjarmson

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Everybody knows that General Zod is a total ripoff of Zerg from Space Lords.

+ Watch video

jamescole

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> I guess the new Bollywood film (Love Story 2050) is gonna break many of those rules... ;)

[www.youtube.com]

Cantonkid

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Eradicate campiness from Science Fiction?

For the sweet noodley love of the Spaghetti Monster; WHY IN THE HELL WOULD ANYONE WANT TO DO THAT?

Now presenting Science Fiction. Devoid of any humor or fun.
You can have it.

I'll be over there enjoying myself.

Plague

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @X: The Eliminator: in defense of go go boots, i present "raumpatrouille orion" which was all kind of awesome with go go dancers under the ocean.

@Lizzie24601: aww yeah.

regis

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Agreed on the disco suits. Throw in those Buck disco light strings as well.

Don't mix themes like disco lights and roller disco.

Hmmm, seems to be a recurring theme here.

As for the racial stereotyping, I'd also like to include the evir gleen skinned ariens of the Tlade Fedelation who would not be out of prace in a WW2 movie or James Bond movie (as Asian henchmen or baddies.) Another fuck you, Geolge Rucas.

ManchuCandidate

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @StrangelyBrown:

Aye, agreed - If some humans had their way we'd all be following a particular creed. But I like to believe that evolution desires diversity, so no matter what temporary unity we achieve we'll always have beloved, beloved chaos.

Theoban

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Theoban: Actually, if some contemporary humans had their way, earth would be reduced to one school of thought and only one quotable book. I'm willing to excuse the Ferengi on this one because they were intended to be a cautionary example of a society wherein capitalism has totally run amok. But in general, like single-climate planets, one-dimensional cultures suck.

StrangelyBrown

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Whatevs, I am an active proponent of the need for more scifi musicals (or musical scifi), so I'm just gonna ignore #12. And hold up "Little Shop" as an example of camp done right.

Lizzie24601

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> I don't know, Sting is lookin' pretty hot in that...

thing.

Aethyr

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> I agree with most of the points, but Sky Captain was cool. It was unique and retro. A real treat for those of us who appreciate the classic styles.

Angelina Jolie: too sexy-cool to bitch about.

One suggestion, stop naming stuff with the descriptors "star" or "space" attached to them. eg: "Stardate", Space Doors", etc.

Zantor

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> If Galaxy Quest had followed rule #9 we would never have

"By Grabthar's hammer, by the sons of Warvan, you shall be avenged."

Foggynotion

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> My "thoughts":

Hey, when Heinlein lectured me it made me feel smart & superior. When Asimov lectured me, it made me take a nap. Just sayin'.

& re: funny accents. Is our Lucas learning?

Bender can vent coolent anytime he wants & I won't kick.

Whoever choreographed the fight scenes in ST did a sucky, sucky job. But I like the novel & I found the film fun--if I take it as a critique of American culture and the MIC, which I do.

@Garrison Dean, King Awesome: Hey, I saw Zardoz something like 30 years ago in an art theatrre run by hippies & with no parents in sight. Warped me for life & I'm glad it did...

@BullfightsOnAcid: & I need to second this "KNEEL BEFORE ZOD."

Emmanuel Goldstein

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Boy, talk about spoiling things! Where's science fiction without it's schlock? Romance, horror, war movies -- there's always a subset of schlock that makes you appreciate the good stuff even more. Besides, say what you want, but Flash Gordon was a pretty good schlocky movie. Sometimes all I want is entertainment, and I don't want to have to think too hard. No one will accuse Flash Gordon of being a morality play.

NefariousNewt

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @foolish-rain: My favorite Rule of Acquisition: Treat people in your debt like family... exploit them.

EBone

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> I pretty much agree, except the Angelina part. It's the directors and writers who ruin films she is in.

Bloodboiler

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> no go-go boots?? that's a bit harsh, don't you think?

X: The Eliminator

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Does #15 exclude "groinal sockets" ala Kryton on Red Dwarf, too? 'Cause I don't want to live in a universe without groinal socket jokes.

I agree with #9, but I have to defend the Rules of Acquisition--it's is written by many wise Ferengi over many centuries and is a kind of living bible. And of course, very profitable...

foolish-rain

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> while i do love all the cracks aimed at Buck Rodgers from the 70s ( which btw was pure cheese when it 1st aired doesn't take looking back to know that lol)

This Island Earth is a true classic ( weird in parts but generally well thought through )

And you HAVE to love the nods Sky Capitan made to all of pulp Sci-Fi because again they did as good a job of it as The Rocketeer did.

AND....
I challenge you to name a point in the entire existence of Tomb Raider that wasn't pure camp.

I double dare you... lol

dOk

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Realism has its benefits, to be sure, even when talking about the future.

Maldron

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Garrison Dean, King Awesome: Zod: Why do you say this to me, when you know that I will kill you for it? Come, Garrison Dean, son of King Awesome and kneel before Zod!

BullfightsOnAcid

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> This has been posted many times before but the Andromeda performance from Buck Rogers is as campy as it gets...and I love it!

+ Watch video

BullfightsOnAcid

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> No proper nouns starting with Z or X.

Zod, Zardoz, Xanadu, Zurg, Zorg, Xander, Planet X, Zaphod, Zul, Zaius... to name a few.

Garrison Dean, Mr. Privilege

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> I just watched the first hour of Pluto Nash and then gave up.
You do realise that this list condemns the Fifth Element? If anything it proves that campness should not totally be removed from sci-fi.
Also, Rosario Dawson is fit. And Lex Kills Lana.

MrLister

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> But didn't Queen's soundtrack save the 80s Flash Gordon movie?

Oh yeah, right. Never mind.

EBone

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Log1c: I meant the neologisim for "cool" as used in Firefly /Serenity.
But yes, shiny clothing is hideously campy


Grey_Area

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> #9 is something that's always irked me. Humanity doesn't have one school of thought, and neither should Alien cultures (unless they're hive minds, of course. Or you just have a culture-spanning dictatorship or something)

I find it an insult to the diversity of life.

Theoban

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> @Grey_Area: Shiny alone doesn't count, shiny camouflage is hella campy though.

Log1c

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Mondo props for all the references to 'The Apple', hands down the most unintentionally funny movie ever made.

MrBabyMan

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> # 5: The word used in Sleeper was "Cugat" for the stylish hip Cuban bandleader Xavier Cugat. Still, a bit campy but that was the point.
What's the verdict on "Shiny"?


Grey_Area

]]> <![CDATA[21 Ways To Eradicate Campiness From Science Fiction]]> Alright so maybe its me, but I don't get the term 'hard sci-fi'. If you base all your predictions on current technology its not fiction, and if you extrapolate current technology and create fiction, its really only a matter of time before we build it.

Log1c

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