Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon? - io9 Comments

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

KingsleyPit? — Sun, 04 May 2008 23:47:56 PDT

Mormon references no accident -- sort of Glen Larson, the creator of Battlestar Galactica is a Mormon. And there are many Mormon references in the show. The Quorum of 12, the lost 13th tribe, Kobol (anagram of Kolob) and so on. Ron Moore, of course is not a Mormon, just working with the original structure he wants to take. But he might enjoy throwing in some other references. Mormons also have a cycle, though it is a very long one. In their doctrine our god was once a man on another planet who did very well, and got his own planet to rule, and the good mormons here on this planet will get their own planets (with many wives) down the road.

KingsleyPit?

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

IngridBorus — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:19:05 PDT

Comment on Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon? And, since no one's been bright enough to make the connection yet...Glen Larson is/was LDS. Just about ALL the mythology of Galactica is a spin on the Mormon religion. Whether Baltar is one or not is a silly discussion since...there aren't any in said mythology. Why not discuss something relevant to the actual show, people? If you want to explore the similarities between the WRITING and the Mormon belief system, perhaps? **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)

IngridBorus

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

laughingacademy — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:25:43 PDT

Whenever I read or watch anything about the LDS and the polygamy issue comes up, I want to tap the author/narrator on the shoulder and say, "Erm, you mean polygyny. I get the feeling that if a lady Mormon had proclaimed that God had told her to take multiple husbands, the Elders would not have been cool with that."

So, who's got the gold plates?

laughingacademy

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

RhymePhile — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:07:23 PDT

What Would Gaius Do?

He was more religious-looking when he was scruffy and long-haired, IMO.

RhymePhile

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

correnn — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:02:00 PDT

Isn't S&M a part of all religions?

correnn

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

dangrgirl — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:48:24 PDT

@Byronotron: "I think they are using allegories for religious leaders who begin to believe they are gods or prophets or the messiah..."

This is sort of replaying what happened with one of the Lords of Kobol, the "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began."

dangrgirl

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Byronotron — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:48:09 PDT

I highly doubt that Ron Moore or David Eick would have found it necessary to include such specific religious overtones. Religious overtones are a part of the show, but to emphasize such a SMALL religion in comparison with the religions that have spanned the earth for so long, would be silly. Glen A. Larson had aliens, talking cars, and Boxey. RM and DE have skinjobs and New Caprica. The two series really couldn't be any more tonally different. I think they are using allegories for religious leaders who begin to believe they are gods or prophets or the messiah and a better comparison to an actual specific person would be someone like Jim Jones , an ego maniacal genius capable of manipulating people into doing his will. I mean, I'm not religious but anyone can see that Jesus was not Gaius Baltar and vice versa, Jesus a least in his time, was probably a pretty decent hippie type. I think Joseph Smith probably is more honorable than this guy, and he started a fucking war. Like a lot of shows I think this is a Rorschach test of religion. Which is good, but this guy isn't going to be innocently dying for anyone's sins anytime soon. If he's dying at all, for anything, you'd damned be sure it's going to be to feed his own ego. That's all.

Byronotron

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

promethean_spark — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:57:19 PDT

Actually wouldn't a better parallel be with Moses, that was another exodus that's just a wee bit more widely in the back of folks minds than Mormonism. Moses had a rant against polytheists, much as Baltar did in the last episode. Also the Jews fleeing Egypt looking for a homeland, while being harried by the Egyptions, is far more similar to the BSG plot than the Mormon exodus.

In reality it's probably some mashup of all the above.

promethean_spark

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Death_Worm — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:46:59 PDT

Or Baltar's "You're perfect!" doctrine could be seen as just a warmer, fuzzier version of Nietzsche's Ubermensch (who is supposedly so totally awesome that he's beyond morality), or an Aleister Crowley "Do what thou wilt" mentality. Come to think of it, Crowley did have a goddess referred to as the "Scarlet Woman" in his mystical system, and MindSix wears a lot of red...

Death_Worm

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

DocGratis — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:12:20 PDT

@OW-Holmes: @gethsemene: @mikecap:

OW-Holmes is right (sort-of)...
You need to maximize genetic diversity.. So multiple wives is not right...

So you need a system not of free love, but of maximal diversity love... S Baxter's book "Time Ships" (mentioned here before) has a bit when the do this...

So not so much free love, as maximal randomization love..

DocGratis

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

monkity — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:29:50 PDT

@diverguy: Perfection being defined in terms of their God's will, same diff.

And I say, bring on the polyamory! Some of my favorite wives are polyamorists! j/k

monkity

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Swarlanis — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:28:34 PDT

For the record, there's a BIG difference between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and the Fundamentalists. Anyone found practicing polygamy in the LDS church is immediately excommunicated. At the time that polygamy *was* practiced, it wasn't illegal.
Also, random information... Jesus probably was married. He taught in temple... according to Jewish custom, you have to married to do so....

Swarlanis

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Priam — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:21:31 PDT

Agreeing with most here, the Mormons pretty much dropped polygamy so they could have Utah.

Priam

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Evil Tortie's Mom — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:17:58 PDT

@JennaW: More men than women?

Polyandry time! w00t!

(and good record-keeping, as Braak said)

Evil Tortie's Mom

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Evil Tortie's Mom — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:13:59 PDT

Baltar = Smith

Well DUH as the kids say; original BSG was very open about it being "Book of Mormon -- In Space!" *

I remember at the time, my Mormon friends (who were generally discouraged from having anything to do with the sci-fi) were practically required to watch BSG.

*(hey, that "in space" thing really works, doesn't it?)

Evil Tortie's Mom

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Jeff-Minor — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:04:56 PDT

There's a cult leader born every day, and there are cult followers born every second.

Jeff-Minor

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

diverguy — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:59:49 PDT

@kshenkshen:

I believe he said "You are perfect just the way you are". Meaning that nobody is truely perfect, but they're as perfect as 'God' wants them to be.

diverguy

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Sharpless — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:49:37 PDT

That TMBG reference made my pants tingle. Very nice. :)

Sharpless

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

kshenkshen — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:45:29 PDT

gaius's "we are perfect" is so far from christianity and original sin. he's got jesus-like aspects, but is obvs not a direct rip-off of.

kshenkshen

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

dangrgirl — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:31:59 PDT

@Acheman: You beat me to it!

dangrgirl

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

MISS MERCY STREET — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:24:51 PDT

There are several essays on the web devoted to BSG and Mormonism.

[www.michaellorenzen.com]

MISS MERCY STREET

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

braak — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:15:43 PDT

@Spoonman: Except for the practical consideration that one is Mithraism and the other is Christianity.

It's one thing to say two things are related, that they're similar, that they borrow from each other, but saying that they're the same thing ignores a lot of things that a very different, among them two thousand years of related history.

braak

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Spoonman — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:06:56 PDT

@Acheman: actually, there's plenty of evidence that Mithraism and christianity are one and the same. First century christianity was concerned with the myth of the Jesus figure as being an ideal to strive for, there was no actual living "Jesus". It wasn't until the 4th century when literalists decided there was, found four of the hundreds of coptic texts that had approximately the same version of the Jesus story, cobbled them together and called them "gospel". They then burned anyone or anything that differed from this view as blasphemous.

Reread the various "acts" and "letters" of the apostles, but keep in mind the idea of Jesus being an ideal, not a real person, and you'll see that they make much more sense.

Spoonman

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Jeff-Minor — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:50:52 PDT

Billygoat117, fundementalist LDS do practice polygamy. They may not be the main-stream church, but they are practicing the original faith.

Jeff-Minor

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

billygoat117 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:22:55 PDT

I just want to take this opportunity to point out that Mormons don't practice polygamy anymore. Any that say they still do are part of offshoots not affiliated with the main LDS church.

Anyway, as a practicing Mormon, I can totally see the parallels between Gaius and Joseph Smith.

billygoat117

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

dead_red_eyes — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:08:39 PDT

@strider_mt2k:

Thank you for the good laugh my man!!!

dead_red_eyes

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

diverguy — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:05:40 PDT

While I watch the show every week.. (it's the only tv show I schedule around), or maybe it's just because I'm a hard core atheist, but all this religious crap is stretching my interest. I don't watch a show like BSG to be taught some religious mumbo-jumo. I watch it to see Vipers v Raiders shooting it up.

If they want to do some backstory about what the Cyclons were doing for those years they were not seen or heard from, that's great. I'd love to see how the "toasters" of Adama's time evolved into what you're seeing now. I'd be interested in some cylon history. And if they happen to have some form of religion, that's okay too. But the exploration of cylon religion shouldn't be core premise of the show.

diverguy

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

JennaW, Internet Tough Girl — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:47:05 PDT

@braak: Win/Win!

JennaW, Internet Tough Girl

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

braak — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:42:41 PDT

@JennaW: Also: very sexy.

braak

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

JennaW, Internet Tough Girl — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:38:16 PDT

@braak: That *would* be better for the gene pool.

JennaW, Internet Tough Girl

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Lizfu — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:27:42 PDT

Aaaand right now it's taking everything in my power NOT to quote South Park.

I see Gaius Baltar as a composite of different religious/cult figures. He has many of the stock features: charisma, "divine" visitations (surprising how he hasn't outed Head Six yet as his messenger from God), and groupies - the freaky type who are looking for a little more than religious devotion and salvation.

I wonder who's going to be the Brigham Young to his Joseph Smith...?

Lizfu

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

braak — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:22:38 PDT

@JennaW: Really, what they need is just a lot of polyamory.

Along with good records about who is which person's kid.

braak

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

JennaW, Internet Tough Girl — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:17:12 PDT

@mikecap: And multiple wives is the only realistic way to keep the species going with such a drastically reduced population.

Because we've seen so many more women than men on the show...?

Actually, it seems to me that even among the Cylons, the men outnumber the women, so your supposition is made of fail.

The only reasonable way to deal with this without causing problems for the important members of the surviving human population -- you know, the ones actually capable of continuing the species -- is to take another cue from Mormon polygamists and exile the excess males.

JennaW, Internet Tough Girl

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Priam — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:14:28 PDT

I actually brought this up in the last post.

[io9.com]

You guys need to ocassionally glance at this site.[en.battlestarwiki.org]

Priam

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

gethsemene — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:04:33 PDT

@mikecap: Uh, yeah. Multiple wives sounds like the worst possible idea in that circumstance. "Hey, there's not much genetic material left, so let's limit it further by only allowing a few men to breed."

gethsemene

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

braak — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:41:32 PDT

@mikecap: Alternately: the hijra.

braak

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

OW-Holmes — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:36:14 PDT

@mikecap: Multiple wives would only be necessary if there are more women than men. You could also have a system of free love.

And if The Church of Mormon is filled with Tricia Helfers sign me up.

OW-Holmes

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Acheman — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:15:20 PDT

I'm surprised no-one's bringing up the line from the Quorum meeting in Friday's ep where one of the representatives commented that Baltar's cult was 'actually not dissimilar to Mithraism' - a Graeco-Roman cult which, famously, inspired much of the iconography and ethos of early Christianity.

Acheman

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

mikecap — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:14:57 PDT

The Mormom pioneer exodus to Utah is very easy to parallel with the BSG caravan of ships to Earth. Gaius even became the leader, so of course he's Joseph Smith! And multiple wives is the only realistic way to keep the species going with such a drastically reduced population.

mikecap

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

extracrispy — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:13:44 PDT

Wait, are you guys really not that up on your Battlestar history?

Battlestar Galactica was created by Glen A. Larson. Who is Mormon. There are tons of Mormon themes throughout the show, both the old and the re-imagined series. The "council of twelve" comes directly from the Church.

I'm surprised you guys are so surprised by this.

extracrispy

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

enolraic — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:08:20 PDT

"he may look like Jesus, so they say, Mr. Jesus is very far away" EPIC QUOTE

enolraic

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

SeanOHara — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:57:20 PDT

I think it's obvious that Six is Count(ess) Iblis.

SeanOHara

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

aspiringexpatriate — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:56:12 PDT

@braak: Wait, you're asking us to re-interpret things?

But we all KNOW these things, we can't be asked to... think differently.

What are we, fans of a thought provoking TV show?

Right, while BSG may be more of a 'what the hell' thought provoking rather than actual issues, it's nice that they're ambiguous about 'good' and 'bad' and also nice that they're not as what the hell as other crap long arc shows because instead of ending on a what the hell note every episode it's mostly ending on a 'shit they did THAT' note.

I mean, I'd rather watch a show where everything went to shit for the characters than one where everything just got more and more confusing.

aspiringexpatriate

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Jeff Lester — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:55:28 PDT

Four comments in and nobody's given props to the "Kiss Me, Son of God" quote buried in there? People are slow to wake up this morning...

Jeff Lester

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

Theoban — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:39:37 PDT

Well the original series was meant to be a retelling of the Mormon story wasn't it? So I'd not be surprised that this 're-imagining' has Mormon-esque overtones.

Theoban

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

darcymcgee — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:39:28 PDT

@strider_mt2k: Drumroll please.

Beat me too it.

darcymcgee

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

braak — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:36:33 PDT

Of course, in the Muslim view, Jesus was not the Son of God, but a prophet who was visited by the archangel Djibril, and given fancy god-powers.

Also, I hear that Mohamet fellow had a bunch of wives.

All of this is neither here nor there, of course, because I don't know at all what I'm talking about when it comes to BSG--except that there are lots of different ways to interpret major religious figures, and a direct allegory seems pretty unlikely.

braak

Could Gaius Baltar Be . . . a Mormon?

strider_mt2k — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:32:05 PDT

He's a moron alright.

I...what?

strider_mt2k