Jim (The Canuck One)

The Sontarans are a CLONE race. It makes sense that they have no problems spending their men in sheer overkill...it's probably their main battle tactic. But their seemingly endless war with the Rutans hasn't exactly borne fruit. It's possible (and kind of implied) that they're desperate, here. Overconfidence is clearly a racial trait...and after assessing Earth's technology, decided they were pretty much invulnerable. All UNIT did was disabuse them of the notion.

And speaking as a long time fan, sometimes it's nice to see UNIT kick some uppity alien ass, once in a while. I'm hoping this isn't the last we see of the new UNIT staff.

WizarDru

kevinjwoods

beelzebuddha

I'm completely fed up with Rose, though. Ugh.

cloudhunter

Increasingly, that's how I'm coming to view a lot of the recent episodes. Paper-mache plots studded with beautiful gems of character moments. A lot of the schemes and plots are pretty silly or just don't hold up (rock monsters in Pompeii and a hand-wave retroactive prophecy-enabling time rift?), but scene-by-scene, the episodes contain some really nice ideas and interactions. Which I guess is really better than the converse -- dully plodding through tightly-scripted epic stories...all we really want to see is the Doctor and companions shine and sparkle, right?

I loved the phone scene, and "are you my mummy" gave me a chuckle, even while I thought it was a bit OOC, though I recognized it as a meta wink to the fans. I was also glad that they remembered the Doctor's keen sense of smell, because I knew that he'd figured the fake Martha out right off the bat somehow (just like he did with Cassandra!Rose), and it even occurred to *me* that a clone recently emerged from a bath of goo might smell funny. Although they do apparently come with their hair appropriately styled and French manicures included, so who knows how far the realism goes.

bluewyvern

Cantonkid

@Cantonkid: Wasn't it Ten who was supposed to be a no second chances sort of man? Gone soft.

By the way, anyone else incredibly jealous that Martha got to wear the Doctor's coat? No? Just me?

Lizzie24601

"to offer them a last chance that he knows they won't take? And then it turns out the Doctor is bluffing anyway."

This annoyed me a bit because Eccleston's doctor was a 'you get one chance...that's the kind of doctor I am!" fellow and I liked that...needed more of that in this episode with the world at stake and not just London.

Cantonkid

Time Crash will have to count as our 2 Doctors episode, brief though it was... though I wouldn't be surprised if they try something with Sylvester McCoy or Paul McGann.

ComicDork

lovelight

Speaking of which, I'm surprised they haven't done a "Two Doctors" episode yet, since this series keeps relying on the crutch of bringing back old companions.

bitgod

Wish I could still watch this. I recently lost Sci-Fi, thanks to Comcast.

Sharpless

@t3knomanser: The irony here is that by attempting to make it look realistic (i.e. normal flame color) they undermined the suspension of disbelief.

Jack

Maybe it would've been better in another episode, I'm not sure. I suppose, in retrospect, I liked the reference more than I liked its placement. Still think it was fun.

Maldron

t3knomanser

haile

My poor brain was just not built for nit-picking.

Dunny0

Not that Rose on the scanner did either, but...

I have the feeling Planet of the Ood is as close to a musical as we'll get. Still, I'd love to see Musical Who. Particularly if Capt. Jack were in it too - he's pretty good at the whole singing thing.

A planet where they communicate only through song. I could totally see that.

Dunny0

At the time it was awfully traumatic, but it was a pretty good case of things just going -right- down the drain and him managing to pull it off and save the day.

Unless poor Ross. We liked Ross! I was hoping he'd be the next Sgt.Benton of nWho.

YoungWilliam

@SeeingI: @Jack: It's handwaving, pure and simple. It just "works", looks dramatic, and please-don't-stop-to-think.

Again- you can have shlocky, cheesy fun without dotting the landscape with plotholes.

t3knomanser

I liked "The Sontaran Stratagem" but disliked "The Poison Sky." The plot was so full of holes you could fly the Valiant through it. Never mind the Doctor lashing up a plot-saving device at the end (what else is new?) but how does burning off the high-altitude fog help people choking on the ground - or conversely, why weren't people on the ground incinerated? The fireball spread all over the glove in 30 seconds, with no fallout or combustion products or even a few roasted birdies and airplanes?

SeeingI

Also, I totally chose to ignore the actual denouement because if one even begins to think about the scientific ramifications (aside from the charcoal birds, what about planes in the air? the complete and utter heat prostration? the at least horrendous air currents that would have been caused?) one's head might explode.

Also also: There are *some* good jukebox musicals... Mamma Mia for instance ;-)

Jack

...and that being said, a musical episode would basically make my life complete. Singing planet, natch!

Lizzie24601

Mister Adequate

Lizzie24601

Okay, I'm totally over thinking things. That kind of nerd-rage should really be saved for next week.

Dunny0

t3knomanser

Dunny0

Hrm. I posted a really nice reply, but it looks like it got eaten by the tubes.

t3knomanser

I'm waiting 'till next week to make any judgements on Bu- Jenny. Although, if she *is* a Slayer *and* Time Lady, that can me only one thing: Retroactive Musical Episode!

Dunny0

Charlie Jane Anders

Lizzie24601

Charlie Jane Anders

Here's what would have fixed everything for me:
- a moment of crisis/angst for the Doctor when he torched the sky, what with his whole "oops I burned my own planet" ptsd
- some dark acknowledgement that the Doctor pulled the same psychology shtick on Boy Genius as he did on Captain Jack (we already had "are you my mummy?" to set it up!), and fully expected the kid to go all suicide bomber. That would have been a properly dark and creepy note to balance out the rest of the episode
- charcoaled birds falling out of the sky!

So I'm just going to imagine all those things happened, okay? And then the episode plays a lot better in my head.

Also, is NO ONE going to mention that the Doctor is apparently the father of a vampire slayer?!

Lizzie24601

Charlie Jane Anders

When the the rest of the schedule is mindless trash, even this level of writing and performance is a godsend considering the alternative. You can't have 13 Blinks in a season, you need trashy sfx laden stories simply for the audience that are eating their take away or chatting on the phone while watching.

Stop being such snobs. A lot of the old serials are lots of waffle and exposition, you can flesh out a story well with the format. In a 45 minute show, you're goiong to have to pull out the DXM to wrap things up in a manner the average viewer can appreciate.

Fwiffo

Given the Sky's been polluted we need a pretty large scale solution, presumeably involving advanced technology. And a lab containing all the equipment needed was set up in the first half. Nicely plotted in my very humble opinion.

I thought it was a proper UNIT romp this week and I really liked it. And it really wasn't a Deus etc ending.

Maybe I'm the wrong sort of sci fi fan for io9... I love a bit of camp and broad brush stories!

But am intregued by next week's Dr Who... and the sort of reception it's going to get...

lovelight

She's better on Torchwood, where it's more about style than personality.

superdewa

Also, it renders the doctor useless. There's no reason genius boy or one of his proteges couldn't have done that. In fact, it renders the whole "Oh, we're going to run off to be with our families in this time of crisis" thing moot. Any one of the brain-trust could have said, "Oh, you know what? I'm just going to cart this atmosphere cleaner device outside and just clean this up. Won't take a moment. Glad we're getting some mileage out of this."

t3knomanser

@Daniel Rutter:
By that same token, the Borg can protect themselves from most energy weapons, but a simple projectile takes them down. The Sontarans are used to being attacked by advanced weapons, and as such over look the whole low-tech angle. A common mistake with invading alien hordes.
@Jim (The Canuck One):
Yes! I got far to exited when Rose popped up on the scanner... I believe the term is "squee", and I'm ashamed to say I did. Then I rewound it to see it again.
@jbq: Hurray Sally Sparrow. The first female in New Who that didn't fall in love with The Doctor, and managed to live her own normal life after he buggered out of hers.
Of course that means RTD is going to retcon her into being Romana III in human guise. And I'll be okay with that.

One last note: Lizzie24601 nailed it with the Momma Noble rescuing Wilf. I was expecting Donna to pull her head out, but it's nice to see Ms. Nobel, the Elder, do something worthwhile.

Dunny0

Ryan H

jbq

And hotness? I think Ace was way hotter than Zoe, and Romana 1 hotter than her again. But I'll stick to my cup o' Martha, thankyouverymuch (with a side-helping of Sally Sparrows and Madame de Pompadour, who despite not being companions, are both very, very hot).

And apology accepted on the lateness, Charlie. It was worth the wait, as usual :-)

jbq

FrankenPC

lovelight

@ComicDork: Doctor Who occasionally does some awful stuff. Remember when Sylvester McCoy glued the Candyman in place several times to make his escape? Kinda ruins the menace of your villain when the heroes can cross him with impunity merely by spritzing his feet with some lemon juice.

That was crap. We expect the occasional bout of crap. Not everything can be "Genesis of the Daleks" or "The War Planet". But those episodes, and things like "Human Nature/Family of Blood", "The Girl in the Fireplace" and "Blink" all stand as proof that Doctor Who doesn't have to be bad. It can be... not just good, but incredible.

"Well, it's just a family/kid-friendly" show" is not an excuse for bad storytelling.

t3knomanser

The Sontarans aren't warriors; they're shouty, blustering bullies. And the two-parter was completely true to this image of the species. It kind of makes thematic sense of Luke Rattigan, too; just listen to Christopher Ryan's line delivery when he complains that the Sontarans weren't invited to participate in the greatest war in history. He actually sounds hurt. The cool kids got to fight a Time War, but all the Sontarans got was this lousy T-shirt.

canadianlemming

Maldron

Jack

She looked like she was shouting. Desperately trying to get in touch? What is this? They can make a cell phone work across space and time but she can't send an intra-dimensional email?

I like Donna more and more - despite the quality of the plot. (Tate's a good actress.) Her character realizes survival depends on doing something brave and outside her comfort zone. (Compare to the first time Sarah Connor picks up a gun in "The Terminator.") There was no hesitation as she walked over to get the hammer - it was a fait accompli.

Jim (The Canuck One)

IntoAshes

ComicDork

I know this will anger folks: but Doctor Who is, at its core, a children's/"family" program. It isn't a hard core SciFi program no matter how much we watch and wish it was. Accept it for what it is and either enjoy (when it isn't brutally awful) or don't watch/torrent it.

That said the dynamic between Donna & the Doctor continues to grow on me, especially when contrasted with his relationship with Martha. When she smacked him... priceless.

That said, I will always miss Martha.

ComicDork

IntoAshes

There are people that just adore her, and I can't understand why.

Of course, there are also people who think she's hot, which I also fail to understand.

//Martha's hotter. But Zoe was the hottest.

t3knomanser

I mean, NUKING them is supposed to be pointless; what possible value could firearms have? There the Doctor was telling the soldiers to not even try to take the Sontarans on... and it turns out that this was only because he'd never heard of caseless ammunition?!

Daniel Rutter

The writer just isn't very good. She doesn't have the chops to write large scale science fiction. Great at character scenes but can't keep track of the plot implications.

The two Torchwood episodes she wrote were both rather good. They worked because they were small scale self contained stories. All characters bouncing off one another to the eventual conclusion.

But when she tries to write an large scale like this one or the Dalek story from last season it all falls apart. Still lots of good character moments but she can't keep track of the variables and the plot gets subverted to hit the character beats she wants. No plot, just scenes to lead from one preplanned character set piece to another.

So we get silly scenes like the 'cliffhanger' where it doesn't occur to anyone to break the car window. Everything is deadlocked because she can't think of a more interesting way to prevent the Doctor from figuring out what is going on. We never do get an explanation of why the Sontarans are acting sneaky instead of honorable. The real reason is that the writer needed sneaky villains and couldn't be bothered to find a set that fit. Or more likely the original plan was a Sontaran story and the plot just got built up on top without a whole lot of consideration about how the different parts fit together. And last, but certainly not least, we got the magic escape of an ending. In some ways there was no other way for it to end. These episodes never had a real plot to start with, so there was nothing for a proper ending to logically proceed from.

All that said, I enjoyed watching these episodes. Fine television. Decent escapism. My biggest disappointment isn't that it was bad, but that it could have (and often is) so much better.

Oh and the Rose moment? Fantastic.

Ryan H

@lovelight: A deus ex machina (literally "god out of a machine") is an improbable contrivance in a story. The phrase describes an artificial, or improbable, character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot (such as an angel suddenly appearing to solve problems). The term is a negative one, and it often implies a lack of skill on the part of the writer.

Wikipedia thinks we're using the term correctly. This is the generally accepted definition of the term. I think it's a pretty accurate description of some of the sloppier episodes, especially RTD's big ones. Every season finale, for example. The holiday specials.

Basically, RTD can't resolve a conflict without resorting to handwaving. It's sloppy. Too many of the other writers on the show are just as sloppy. The magic air-fixer device was far too convenient.

t3knomanser

Jeff-Minor

And yes, the scene with the kissing at the end was way out of line.

My only other big beef with the whole Sontaran thing is that, well, they didn't seem like warriors to me. Soldiers yes, but warriors no. Perhaps this is just to my American eyes, but they just reminded me of the British during the American Revolution. All march-y, and formation-y. That's not "warrior" to me. Warrior is Klingon, or Ronon on Atlantis-- can follow orders and be regimented but you get a sense of the restraint that that is taking because they really just want to bust out a sword and hack things to bits. I don't think it helped that the lasers killed without seeming to damage even the fabric of the now-corpses' shirts.

Jack

I liked Martha fine, but count me in the Rose camp, and I'm eagerly awaiting her (expected) return.

danwaterhouse

lovelight

The Brigadier is still alive, still working for UNIT, and happened to be doing something in Peru.

I for one, look forward to the episode where the Doctor and the Brigadier meet up again and tackle the Andean Yeti in a tribute to their first meeting, in which they tackle a Himalayan Yeti.

t3knomanser

Gyrus